Why I Donot Hate Islam!!

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vinodks said:
Ok, hate for hate is not good, love for hate is also not good. So if you discern danger, the way to avoid it is to be prepared.

-vinod

Vinodji,

Since you are joining the discussion very late let me request you to read my first post in this thread wherein the last sentence reads as under:

quote
Formidable is the best word that should describe us to them (the Muslim).
unquote


Now are you in a position take a firm stand viz

Is hate for hate good for us or should we hate them?

Please say 'yes' or 'no' , if you wish because we find that this issue is consuming our resources far more than it deserves.
 
I didn't say that I am there to set score by gun point... read my post carefully... inability to see demographic equation and blah blah is true for general public, am not point finger to any particular group... "solution through peaceful means" is paradoxical in the case of Islam and very vague statement... politician's language... Of course I am all for peace too, but peace is earned by strength and power not by timid preaching of non-violence...
Could you plz tell us how to do deal peacefully with suicide bombers?... by hugging them?...

-vinod

devdahiya said:
Vinod Bhai not true that older generation is more COMPLACENT.......on the contarary it is the new generation which is becoming increasingly intolerant and wants to settle scores at gun point.......MInd you there is no substitute for calm thoughts and affactionate feelings......Any solution to any and every thing will have to come throough peaceful means if it has to last......Your reference...ie...INABILITY TO SEE DEMOGRAPHIC...etc not withstanding.
 
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Ok my answer is "Blind hate for hate is not good"... but when one knows that he is being hated its his natural duty to combat it, and its smart to take pre-emptive measures... pre-emptive blow is not violence, its pathway towards peace...

-vinod


deswal said:
Vinodji,

Since you are joining the discussion very late let me request you to read my first post in this thread wherein the last sentence reads as under:

quote
Formidable is the best word that should describe us to them (the Muslim).
unquote


Now are you in a position take a firm stand viz

Is hate for hate good for us or should we hate them?

Please say 'yes' or 'no' , if you wish because we find that this issue is consuming our resources far more than it deserves.
 
vinodks said:
I didn't say that I am there to set score by gun point... read it carefully... inability to see demographic equation and blah blah is true for general public, am not point finger to any particular group... "solution through peaceful means" is paradoxical in the case of Islam and very vague statement... politician's language... Of course I am all for peace too, but peace is earned by strength and power not by timid preaching of non-violence...
Could you plz tell us how to do deal peacefully with suicide bombers?... by hugging them?...

-vinod



Yes, by all means......if lasting peace has to return then it has to be either hugging the misguided [wherever they are irrespective of religion or cast.....and irrespective of the fact that who huggs them]or by total elimination of evil but can evil be wiped out...? will not it give birth to more evil....?Take your time to ponder Bhai. Make a choice please.
 
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vinodks said:
Could you plz tell us how to do deal peacefully with suicide bombers?... by hugging them?...

-vinod
How to deal with them is quite natural query! If you are sure that hate for hate is not the solution, we may enter the next step of discussion i.e. how to deal with them.

So, I would request you make up your mind before we proceed. Dahiya Sahab is quite right. Old generation is not complacent. They are pragmatic. Many in the new generation are also pragmatic. You should not have generalised, Vijay!! You slipped!! No problem. Now think ahead!!
 
Mr Deswal

With respect

You are taking a very simplistic approach, by asking “ should one hate Islam” or “ not”?

Having done that, the people who have pointed out their difficulties with Islam, its followers, and their acts, have been bracketed as ‘ being those who hate Islam’

The members here are sensible , normal people, who do not hate anyone or anything.

They all know that ‘hate’ by itself it self destructive, and destroys ( eventually)the one who is the ‘hater’.

They certainly disagree with the teachings of Islam, and object to what the followers of Islam are doing.

They are more concerned with, what should be done about that, and how to get the followers of Islam to stop doing acts that cause others to ‘ hate’ them.

My abiding interest, as some know, is History!

History shows us, that wherever Islam has become dominant,( or even where it has become a significant minority), it has shown its intolerance of other faiths, and has successfully obliterated those other faiths, and those who followed those faiths- Buddhism/ Hinduism/ Zoroastrianism/Sikhism from what is now Syria, Arabia, Iraq, Iran Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Central Asia, and the parts of India..

That mindset, that cases those acts, can only be changed by those who follow Islam, by its leaders, its mullahs.

It cannot be changed by outsiders, arguing among themselves, whether they should ‘hate’ Islam or not?

Your discussion should be with them on their forums.


Ravi Chaudhary
 
ravichaudhary said:
Mr Deswal

With respect

You are taking a very simplistic approach, by asking “ should one hate Islam” or “ not”?

Having done that, the people who have pointed out their difficulties with Islam, its followers, and their acts, have been bracketed as ‘ being those who hate Islam’

The members here are sensible , normal people, who do not hate anyone or anything.

They all know that ‘hate’ by itself it self destructive, and destroys ( eventually)the one who is the ‘hater’.

They certainly disagree with the teachings of Islam, and object to what the followers of Islam are doing.

They are more concerned with, what should be done about that, and how to get the followers of Islam to stop doing acts that cause others to ‘ hate’ them.

My abiding interest, as some know, is History!

History shows us, that wherever Islam has become dominant,( or even where it has become a significant minority), it has shown its intolerance of other faiths, and has successfully obliterated those other faiths, and those who followed those faiths- Buddhism/ Hinduism/ Zoroastrianism/Sikhism from what is now Syria, Arabia, Iraq, Iran Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Central Asia, and the parts of India..

That mindset, that cases those acts, can only be changed by those who follow Islam, by its leaders, its mullahs.

It cannot be changed by outsiders, arguing among themselves, whether they should ‘hate’ Islam or not?

Your discussion should be with them on their forums.


Ravi Chaudhary



And all this is because of Insecure feelings and fear of total alienation.[by rest of the world]....why that feeling...is anybody's guess?
 
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ravichaudhary said:
Mr Deswal

With respect

! ) You are taking a very simplistic approach, by asking “ should one hate Islam” or “ not”?


2) They all know that ‘hate’ by itself it self destructive, and destroys ( eventually)the one who is the ‘hater’.


3) They are more concerned with, what should be done about that, and how to get the followers of Islam to stop doing acts that cause others to ‘ hate’ them.




4) It cannot be changed by outsiders, arguing among themselves, whether they should ‘hate’ Islam or not?

5) Your discussion should be with them on their forums.


Ravi Chaudhary


Chaudhary Sahab,

I had restricted the approach very simplistic as you said. Let me explain why:

If you read the whole thread you would realise that first we tried to find the reasons of the Muslims for their being what they are. They (with a few exceptions, off course) hate the people of other religions including the Hindus for various reasons. I would request you to go through my first post in this thread word by word. Then came the question whether hate for hate is going to help us. You rightly said all people here are quite senible to understand that hate for hate is not going to help us in dealing with them but unfortunately, a few people still think therwise. If we agree that if we decide to have the feelings of hatred towards them (for whatever they are), it is not going to be good for our own sake, we could step on the next part of our discussion aa to how should we deal with them. We are seized with the second part ie is hate for hate going to help us. That is why the approach is so simplistic. When we have decided once for all that the solution lies somewhere else and not in hatred on our part we may strive to find the ways of dealing with them. We may work out, I am 100% sure. I mean we may discuss and I hope agree on a unified approach. But we would have to agree or disagree whether hate for hate is going to help us.

So !!!!

I hope you now agree that it makes some sense to be so simplistic!!
 
I agree with Raviji... The issue can't solved just by 'hate or no-hate' decision... I don't hate anyone personally, some muslim Jats were in same tribes as ours before conversion... But its duty to protect one's own nation and society, 'hate or no-hate' is non-issue... Is it inappropriate for Soldiers who fight the terrorist in Kashmir to hate muslim extremists?... So practical solution should be saught judiciously by taking history as teacher, without bringing emotions in between, be it hate or love... If you sense danger either you hide your neck in sand or stand up to it... Dev Dahiya's concern that would evil be gone after that is not quite relevent, evil will be here as long human beings are, wars are as old as we are... so they will be always there... but Islam's blind hatred for other religions is different...
so without worrying about deep philosophical concerns one should decide...

-vinod

ravichaudhary said:
Mr Deswal

With respect

You are taking a very simplistic approach, by asking “ should one hate Islam” or “ not”?

Having done that, the people who have pointed out their difficulties with Islam, its followers, and their acts, have been bracketed as ‘ being those who hate Islam’

The members here are sensible , normal people, who do not hate anyone or anything.

They all know that ‘hate’ by itself it self destructive, and destroys ( eventually)the one who is the ‘hater’.

They certainly disagree with the teachings of Islam, and object to what the followers of Islam are doing.

They are more concerned with, what should be done about that, and how to get the followers of Islam to stop doing acts that cause others to ‘ hate’ them.

My abiding interest, as some know, is History!

History shows us, that wherever Islam has become dominant,( or even where it has become a significant minority), it has shown its intolerance of other faiths, and has successfully obliterated those other faiths, and those who followed those faiths- Buddhism/ Hinduism/ Zoroastrianism/Sikhism from what is now Syria, Arabia, Iraq, Iran Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Central Asia, and the parts of India..

That mindset, that cases those acts, can only be changed by those who follow Islam, by its leaders, its mullahs.

It cannot be changed by outsiders, arguing among themselves, whether they should ‘hate’ Islam or not?

Your discussion should be with them on their forums.


Ravi Chaudhary
 
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vinodks said:
I agree with Raviji... The issue can't solved just by 'hate or no-hate' decision... I don't hate anyone personally, some muslim Jats were in same tribes as ours before conversion... But its duty to protect one's own nation and society, 'hate or no-hate' is non-issue... Is it inappropriate for Soldiers who fight the terrorist in Kashmir to hate muslim extremists?... So practical solution should be saught judiciously by taking history as teacher, without bringing emotions in between, be it hate or love... If you sense danger either you hide your neck in sand or stand up to it... Dev Dahiya's concern that would evil be gone after that is not quite relevent, evil will be here as long human beings are, wars are as old as we are... so they will be always there... but Islam's blind hatred for other religions is different...
so without worrying about deep philosophical concerns one should think

-vinod


Sorry, i don't buy your story dear.........you are not trying to understand the problem in right perspective. Anyways i don't wish to take my take further...all yours.
 
Kaka sri, with respect.
Ok you are allowed to take your leave :-)))) you did good job, keep it up. See you in some other thread!

Guys, the purpose these kinds of discussions is to get clear about the issues... and by being aggressive I don't mean that we do the same thing as Islamist do, its just to be more aware and cultivate "threat perceptions"... and speak out loud for ourselves...

-vinod

devdahiya said:
Sorry, i don't buy your story dear.........you are not trying to understand the problem in right perspective. Anyways i don't wish to take my take further...all yours.
 
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Vinodji,

You were requested to make your stand unambiguous so we proceed to discuss "how to deal with them". First you entered the discussion just today. I doubt you read all the previous posts on this thread. Result: repeating the same things as posted already. If you wish to contribute anything meaningful in this thread take a stand. If you say you are for hatred, we have no objection. It is your choice. If you say ' no' , let us wait for others' comments. In the meantime think of the ways of dealing with them. Just to say our approach is not correct or inadequate is not enough to say the least.

So make an introspection to see what meaningful you added today.

Best of wishes!
 
Ok my response is "no"... plz proceed.

-vinod

deswal said:
Vinodji,

You were requested to make your stand unambiguous so we proceed to discuss "how to deal with them". First you entered the discussion just today. I doubt you read all the previous posts on this thread. Result: repeating the same things as posted already. If you wish to contribute anything meaningful in this thread take a stand. If you say you are for hatred, we have no objection. It is your choice. If you say ' no' , let us wait for others' comments. In the meantime think of the ways of dealing with them. Just to say our approach is not correct or inadequate is not enough to say the least.

So make an introspection to see what meaningful you added today.

Best of wishes!
 
vinodks said:
Ok my response is "no"... plz proceed.

-vinod

Thanks ! The list has been updated. But the most responsible part of your contribution is yet to come and that is to give well considered opinion about "how to deal with them?". Take your time but please do contribute.

I want to make the same request to all members whose response is "No".
 
My Answer...

Bhai Deswal,

My Answer(s). Please bear with me...

1. Do I hate Islam: NO.

2. Do I hate Muslims: NO.

3. Is violence in the name of Muslim Rights Justified: NO.

4. Is State Sponsored Terrorism the answer: NO.

5. Should hate be the natural response: NO.

6. Is there a solution: YES.

7. Will Issues be sorted out only across the table: YES.

8. Is Killing all the Muslims a solution: NO.

9. Is it possible to kill all of them in the first place: NO.

10. What is the remedy: EDUCATION, EDUCATION & MORE EDUCATION.

Regards,

JS Malik
 
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Since discussion is shifted about tackling them, there are two scenerio's

Muslims fighting Jats, dont see much possibility if happens they will be the looser, we have strong base in Haryana, Rajasthan, Punjab, UP.

About tackilng them vis-a-vis common man, I dont know! I dont see any other option except to confront them!

We cant educate them and neither we can change their mind set!

Also there are loads of muslim Jats in Pakistan and they are our brothers!

Do you know muslim Rajputs have started calling them Jats in Pakistan punjab!! Jats and Rajputs form around >60% population of pakistan punjab!! Expect increase in jat % by 50% in next 100 years or so!!

I dont want those dirty Rajputs to be mixed with our community anywhere!! :(

God save our community from filthy Rajputs!
 
Why not HATE the wrong?

In facts we donn't HATE a specific Religion.
We HATE the MINDSET, ATTITUDE & THINKING.
Unfortunately these thing are found somewhat wrong in ISLAM not only by Hindus but by ALL OTHER RELIGIONS.

I will continue to HATE ISLAM till there are following DRAWBACKs-

(1) No Family Planning (we know the reason well).
(2) No Respect for other Religions.
(3) Marriages in their close relatives.
(4) No sympathy for PETs specially COW.
(5) No attitude towards keeping their surroundings CLEAN.

We are normal human being & a normal human being generally HATE the wrong things in their surrounding.

If MUSLIMS can move ahead even little to erase out these DrawBacks then definitely we LOVE MUSLIMS.

But if they donn't I will continue HATE.

Bye
RAHUL NADAR
 
U sound very true bro,
I dont hate Muslims but I do hate their religion's drawback like u do.
gud contribution!! kudos to u

Rock on
Jit


crsnadar said:
In facts we donn't HATE a specific Religion.
We HATE the MINDSET, ATTITUDE & THINKING.
Unfortunately these thing are found somewhat wrong in ISLAM not only by Hindus but by ALL OTHER RELIGIONS.

I will continue to HATE ISLAM till there are following DRAWBACKs-

(1) No Family Planning (we know the reason well).
(2) No Respect for other Religions.
(3) Marriages in their close relatives.
(4) No sympathy for PETs specially COW.
(5) No attitude towards keeping their surroundings CLEAN.

We are normal human being & a normal human being generally HATE the wrong things in their surrounding.

If MUSLIMS can move ahead even little to erase out these DrawBacks then definitely we LOVE MUSLIMS.

But if they donn't I will continue HATE.

Bye
RAHUL NADAR
 
bang on...........

jagmohan said:
What is the remedy: EDUCATION, EDUCATION & MORE EDUCATION.

absolute remedy colonel saab...........kashmir students today study in their social science class in school tht india has 20 states......nt 28.........uff......IS THIS RIDICULOUS GOVT.....SLEEPING.............:mad::mad::mad:

PARR EK BAAT HAII COLONEL SIR..........INN MULLYAN NEY PADHAWENGE HUMM.......ARR YE SHARAT LAA LYOO APNE KABLIYAT NEY TEROORIST KAAMAN MAIN LAADENGEE.............100% SURE..........ND COFIDENT.....

INKAA KIMMEE KARR LYOO.....YE NA SUDHARREEN ARR NAA E HUMNEE KOSHISH KARNI CHAIYE.........BUS EKK EE ILLAAJ SAII......ARR WO KADE NA KADEE TO KARNA EE PADEEGAA...........BHARAT PAK YUDH HOWEGAA......ARR WO BHI INKII WAJAH SEE.........NAAS KARENGEE YE MHARE DESH KAA BHII APNEE KAA TE KARR LIYAA.........RAAM BACHAIYEE..........
 
Let's Not Digress...

Dear Vikas,

Since Deswal Bhai is trying to get some focus in the thread, I won't like to reply in detail.

However, please know that Turkey, Morocco, Malaysia and few other Muslim Countries believe in modernisation. And all Terrorists Groups do not owe allegience to Muslims. Red Brigade, ETA, Naxalites etc etc.

Regards,

JS Malik
 
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