"Should the Govt amend HMA to ban 'same-gotra' marriage"?

Do you support same Gotra marriage?


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Ye khabar padh lo Nitin Ji,
http://navbharattimes.indiatimes.com/delhiarticleshow/6047998.cms

waise jahan aap jaise most liberal aur human right activist rahte hon wahan kisi bhi tarah ki killing ho hi nahi sakti. ye jo link Rakesh Ji ne diya hai upar wo to kisi ne aise hi banaya hai sirf western countries ko badnaam karne ke liye.
killing to Bharat jaise desh me aur sirf gaon me hi sambhav hai jahan sirf anpadh aur ganwar log rahte hain.

aapki buddhimatta par aapko sadhuwaad.

विदेशों की बात तो छोड़ दो, अपने ही देश में शेहेरों में और कई प्रदेशों में "egoistic muders" जैसी कोई विचारधारा नहीं है...
 
अब हत्यारे तो किस्सी न किस्सी रूप में हर शेहेर में मिल ही जायेगे. जुर्म तो है ही हर जगह, छोटे या बड़े रूप में. i was just concerned that by saying it is everywhere, doesnt alleviate the gravity of this crime or justify it in any sense.
 
Please read again, the news says "honor killing in Delhi" and the link given by Rakesh Ji says "honor killing in Europe" and you said no honor (egoistic) killing in cities.

I do not support but condemn any honor killing and voted for the same but your conclusions are baseless, that is why I replied to your post. Honor killing is everywhere in one form or another, more or less but it is there and that is what Rakesh Ji trying to say.

अब हत्यारे तो किस्सी न किस्सी रूप में हर शेहेर में मिल ही जायेगे. जुर्म तो है ही हर जगह, छोटे या बड़े रूप में. i was just concerned that by saying it is everywhere, doesnt alleviate the gravity of this crime or justify it in any sense.
 
Mr Dalal, I am sorry if my adressing you as my son offeneded you, may be due to oversight. Brother, when I said very clearly that I agree with all other points which not contradicted by me than where is doubt or poin of further clearification left, anyway point noted for future compliance please.

Fatehji,

1. I had made it clear earlier that I didn't even understand what sunni meant. So how can you conclude that "my son" (which I didn't understand) offended me? Indeed, you are welcome to address me as sunni in future, now that I understand it. And I can call you as uncleji, tauji or anything else that you consider as appropriate- pls let me know.

2. I anyways would prefer not to have an ego that gets offended by smallest of provocations.

3. I didn't request you again to list your agreements in my subsequent post. Raviji did.

Thanks and Regards
 
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Handout
Aqsa Parvez, left, Shemina Hirji, top right, and Amina Yaser Said and Sarah Yaser Said, bottom right, were all killed by men in their lives in crimes often described as "honour killings." The term has sparked a debate.



Shannon Proudfoot, Canwest News Service · Thursday, Jul. 23, 2009
As many as 5,000 women and girls lose their lives -- most at the hands of family members -- in “honour killings” around the world each year, according to the United Nations.
Up to a dozen have died for the same reason in Canada in the last decade, and it’s happening more often, says Amin Muhammad, a psychiatrist who studies honour killings at Memorial University in Newfoundland.
“There are a number of organizations which don’t accept the idea of honour killing; they say it’s a Western-propagated myth by the media, but it’s not true,” he says. “Honour killing is there, and we should acknowledge it, and Canada should take it seriously.”
Kingston, Ont., police are now investigating that as a motive in the deaths of three teenage sisters and an older female relative who were found in a car submerged in the Rideau Canal in Kingston on June 30. The girls’ mother, father and brother were arrested on Wednesday and charged with first-degree murder.
“In our Canadian society, we value the cultural values of everyone that makes up this great country, and some of us have different core beliefs, different family values, different sets of rules,” Kingston Police Chief Stephen Tanner said at a news conference on Thursday. “Certainly, these individuals -- in particular, the three teenagers -- were Canadian teenagers who have all the freedom and rights of expression of all Canadians.”
He added that he’d received an e-mail from an extended family member of the girls, suggesting honour killing was to blame for their deaths.
Honour killings can be sparked by a woman talking to a man, having a boyfriend, wearing makeup or revealing clothing, or even seeking a divorce, says Diana Nammi, founder of the London-based International Campaign Against Honour Killings. Ms. Nammi, originally from Iran, says children of immigrants who grow up inwestern nations take those freedoms for granted, which can throw them into conflict with their parents’ rigid standards.
“When people are moving to another country, they leave everything they have, all their possessions, behind. But what they can bring with them is what they believe, their culture, their traditions, their religion,” she says. “Unfortunately, they are choosing to show the worst part of that, and the worst and criminal part of that is controlling women.”
One of the earliest honour killings involving a Canadian occurred in 2000, when Maple Ridge, B.C., resident Jaswinder Sidhu was murdered in India in what police called a contract killing, after she married a man she met while travelling.
In 2003, Amandeep Atwal, 17, died after her father stabbed her 17 times. The Kitimat, B.C., teen had been secretly seeing a boyfriend.
Sixteen-year-old Aqsa Parvez’s father and brother are currently awaiting trial for her strangulation death in 2007, and friends said the Brampton, Ont., teen had been clashing with her family over her refusal to wear the hijab.
In May, an Ottawa man was sentenced to life in prison for killing his sister, Khatera Sadiqi, 20, and her fiance.
“We cannot say there’s a huge number of cases, but now the cases are increasing, and very soon we’ll have a problem in Canada,” says Mr. Muhammad.
Men occasionally die in honour killings, he says, but young women are almost always the victims in western countries.
Honour killing is most prevalent in nations with large Muslim populations, but Aysan Ms. Sev’er, a professor of sociology at University of Toronto Scarborough and author of an upcoming book on the subject, says there’s nothing in Islam that sanctions the practice. Some perpetrators use religion as a “cloak,” she says, but honour killing is about patriarchy, not religion.
“A few women are really sacrificed to terrorize all women, to push them into submission, where they are not in the position to defend themselves or even their daughters or sisters,” Sev’er says.
It’s wrong-headed to blame particular cultures or further stereotype the Middle East, she emphasizes, but Canada cannot overlook the motivation for these “heinous crimes.”
“In Canada, we have been extremely culturally sensitive, and that’s a good thing,” she says. “But in this particular case, we may have pushed the pendulum a little to the other side, in the sense that there are cultural components in these types of crimes which we cannot ignore.”




Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1821919#ixzz0r5rOnUCP
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'Honor killings' in USA raise concernsUpdated 11/30/2009 1​


http://favorites.my.aol.com/ffclien...usatoday.com/UsatodaycomNation-TopStories.xml


By Oren Dorell, USA TODAY
Muslim immigrant men have been accused of six "honor killings" in the United States in the past two years, prompting concerns that the Muslim community and police need to do more to stop such crimes.
"There is broad support and acceptance of this idea in Islam, and we're going to see it more and more in the United States," says Robert Spencer, who has trained FBI and military authorities on Islam and founded Jihad Watch, which monitors radical Islam.
Honor killings are generally defined as murders of women by relatives who claim the victim brought shame to the family. Thousands of such killings have occurred in Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and Palestinian territories, according to the World Health Organization.
Some clerics and even lawmakers in these countries have said families have the right to commit honor killings as a way of maintaining values, according to an analysis by Yotam Feldner in the journal Middle East Quarterly.
MORE: Ariz. woman allegedly hit with car by Iraqi father dies
BRITAIN: Father found guilty in honor killing

In the USA, police allege the latest "honor killing" was that of Noor Almaleki, 20, who died Nov. 2 after she and her boyfriend's mother were run over in a Peoria, Ariz., parking lot. Prosecutors charged Almaleki's father, Faleh Almaleki, with murder, saying the Iraqi immigrant was upset that his daughter rejected a husband she married in Iraq and moved in with an American.

"By his own admission, this was an intentional act, and the reason was that his daughter had brought shame on him and his family," says Maricopa County prosecutor Stephanie Low, according to The Arizona Republic.
Many Muslim leaders in the USA say that Islam does not promote honor killings and that the practice stems from sexism and tribal behavior that predates the religion.
"You're always going to get problems with chauvinism and suppressing vulnerable populations and gender discrimination," says Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council.
Not all agree. Zuhdi Jasser says some Muslim communities have failed to spell out how Islam deals with issues that can lead to violence.
"How should young adult women be treated who want to assimilate more than their parents want them to assimilate?" asks Jasser, founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, which advocates a separation of mosque and state. "How does an imam treat a woman who comes in and says she wants a divorce ... or how to deal with your daughter that got pregnant, and she's in high school?"
Phyllis Chesler, who wrote about honor killings in her book Woman's Inhumanity to Woman, says police need to focus on the crimes' co-conspirators if they wish to reverse the trend. Before 2008, there were six honor killings in the USA in the previous 18 years, according to her research.
"It's usually the father, brother or first male cousin who is charged with the actual shooting or stabbing, (but not) the mother who lures the girl home," Chesler says. "The religion has failed to address this as a problem and failed to seriously work to abolish it as un-Islamic."
Jasser says his community needs to address how to treat young women who want to assimilate. "Until we have women's liberation ... we're going to see these things increase."
 
Bhai mere hisab se kisiko marna to sahi nahin ha....... Lekin ek gotra main saadi bhi uchit nahin ha...to fir problem ka solution kya ha...???
Mere hisab se jo ho chuka uske bare main sochana wakt ki barbadi ha hamain ye sochana chahiye ki aisa fir na ho....iske liye humain youyaon ko jagrat karne ki jarurat ha....unhain samaj ke niyamon ke bare main batana parents ki zimmedari honi chhahiye....

Thanks Piyush Ji, I am absolutely agree with your thought.
 
The United Nations estimates that 5,000 honour killings occur annually. They take place in Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, Egypt, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Pakistan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey, the UK and Uganda. In countries not reporting to the UN, including Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the Palestinian territories, the situation seems even worse.
Honour killing is rooted in age-old patriarchal cultural traditions. It has a long history in developing countries of the Muslim Middle East and Hindi South Asia, but also in Catholic countries, including Italy and in Latin American, and even in the UK and Canada. These killings are a rebellion against modernity. They are attempts to stop or contain social development, to hold onto older traditional values especially concerning social relations and sexuality.
A series of honour killings in Europe and Canada over the last few years illustrates this disturbing phenomenon in the 'civilised' West. Most upsetting, in 2006 in Southport, on the Gold Coast, a violent domestic dispute involving the murder of a mother, Yasmine Hussain, was initially reported as an honour killing, the first reported case in Australia since 9/11. When the smoke cleared, the daughter, Kaihana (pictured), was charged with killing her mother in a fit of rage over her boyfriend. She remains in prison awaiting trial.
Last year in Britain, Bachan Athwal, a 70-year-old grandmother was convicted for the murder of her daughter-in-law, Surjit Athwal; Mahmod Mahmod, 52, and his brother, Ari Agha Mahmod, 51, were convicted of the murder of their 20-year-old sister, Banaz Mahmod.
In Berlin in 2005, Hatan Surucu, a 23-year-old German woman of Turkish background, was shot and killed by her three brothers for breaking with family values. According to Seyran Ates, a Turkish civil rights lawyer living in Germany, 'Such killings reflect the widely held view in Islam that the honour of a man lies between the legs of a woman.'
In Holland, the number of reported honour-related violent incidents in the Rotterdam region has increased significantly. According to the regional health authorities, the number of such reports more than doubled during the first half of 2007 to 70, up from 30 for all of 2006. As the report's author noted, 'This is just the tip of the iceberg.'
In Canada, a couple of years ago a 14-year-old female rape victim was strangled to death by her father and brother because she had supposedly tarnished the family name. In a second case, a man killed his wife and daughter after finding out his brother had molested them. And a teenage girl from a Turkish background was murdered by her father after he learned that she had a Christian boyfriend.
Honour killings most often involve young women attempting to break from the pre-modern cultural traditions of their immigrant families — families plunged into the maelstrom of increasingly post-modern secular society. (The occasional male victims tend to be accused of adultery and homosexuality as well as rape, exhibitionism and pedophilia.) In most cases, perpetrators of honour killings appear motivated by deeply held moral convictions and seek to restrict the influence of Western values, especially involving dress, socialisation and sexuality.
These killings are not isolated events, but have become part of the tapestry of immigrant alienation, which finds varied expressions. One need only recall the riots in France in 2005 when immigrant youths burned cars, buses and buildings. Similar, but smaller, disturbances flared up in Berlin (in Neu Kölln and Kreuzberg) over school integration problems. And then there were the Danish riots in February 2006 over the publication of cartoons depicting Mohammed.
Traditionally-oriented immigrants confront many challenges adapting to life in the secular West. Language difficulties, residential segregation, limited job opportunities and poverty often make immigrants, especially young people, feel like losers.
Immigration in Australia was a hot issue in the recent election. John Howard championed his standard get-tough position, including introducing citizenship tests. Kevin Rudd, while moving quickly to sign the Kyoto protocol and setting a date for troops to leave Iraq, insists on maintaining current immigration policies, but to do so on a more humane basis.
'Compassion lies in how you execute your responsibilities under the [immigration] convention and making sure that it is done both in the spirit and letter of the convention,' he opined shortly after his election.
Immigration has long been a thorny issue in Australia. Since the end of World War II, nearly six million immigrants have remade the country. During this period, Australia's population has changed from one in which over 90 per cent was of Anglo origin to the current status in which about 30 per cent are from non-Anglo backgrounds. This tendency will only increase in the coming decades.
Failure to address the human issues associated with Australia's changing population mix can contribute to increased social tension. At one extreme this could lead to the kind of violence against Muslims and Arabs demonstrated in the 2005 Cronulla riots. At another extreme, it could fuel deeper feelings of alienation among immigrants, especially among more traditionally-minded immigrants, that could result in honour killings. Either would represent a failure of social policy to adapt to the changing nature of what it means to be an Australian.



I am Not favouring Honour killings all i want to say that this is not done by Khaps or if it done by them then i must say that khaps got power and they are ruling world.
 
I wonder whether he would be able to produce any receipts of the transaction. Neverthess, it would be interesting to know the source of the info, though I am not susprised to hear it.

Nithin

Thank you for picking this up.

The writer, purports to be a retired university professor.

University professors are expected to adhere to a standard higher than ordinary persons.

There are many comments made in this article that I would like more clarity from Mr. Chaudhry.

For the moment, I would simply like him to educate us, on where and when Jats are selling their daughters for Rs 15,000,-- about 1/4 of the price of a buffalo!

Has anyone else come across this practice?


Ravi Chaudhary
 
Though I would like to correct you here that he mentioned about trading of girls from other states, not within jat community. But he also said the same girls are sold further once the lust is over, that was kinda surprising. Why would such a person then buy a wife?

Nitin

Nithin

Thank you for picking this up.

The writer, purports to be a retired university professor.

University professors are expected to adhere to a standard higher than ordinary persons.

There are many comments made in this article that I would like more clarity from Mr. Chaudhry.

For the moment, I would simply like him to educate us, on where and when Jats are selling their daughters for Rs 15,000,-- about 1/4 of the price of a buffalo!

Has anyone else come across this practice?


Ravi Chaudhary
 
Though I would like to correct you here that he mentioned about trading of girls from other states, not within jat community. But he also said the same girls are sold further once the lust is over, that was kinda surprising. Why would such a person then buy a wife?

Nitin


Perhaps Mr Chaudhry can provide some evidence of the 'resale' of such ladies ?

Ravi Chaudhary
 
There is absolutely honor in killing. If there is no honor in killing we would not have seen Julius seizer, Bonaparte, & Hitler as historical figure. They have killed thousands for the honor of their country. And if someone from the home betrays the honor of entire family in particular and of community in whole, deserve the same treatment. ooh That's gross!

Few years back I was in a restaurant in my hometown (कलाकंद और समोसे बहुत पसंद है मेरे को, काजू की कतली फेवरेट है मेरी, but its little expensive (400rs/KG) so I prefer eating in shaadi only). Sorry went off-track…so what I was telling, yes… I overheard the conversation of some folks must be from other castes, one among them said “Yesterday there was an infant found roadside, to which someone said, that area is jat dominated, must be from the same community. Than other guy said- "अगर जाटों की कोई लड़की होती तो जाट छोरी को काट के फेंक देते! जाटों में से नहीं हो सकती"!

Progress and freedom go hand in hand. For a progression of society freedom of any kind is the first requisite. I would prefer being more conservative than progressive in this regard any day.

Who can accept a brother in law or son in law from other community?? Or from dalit community at worse?

There are only two ways: Either the couple should be outcaste (that is very safe way) or should be given a new birth at new place in new liberal house hold.
Parents who choose the latter one are actually the brave heart.

P.S. - "बाबुल की दुआएं लेती जा, जा तुझको सुखी संसार मिले, पिछले जनम की कभी ना याद आये, नए जनम में इतना प्यार मिले..."!
 
Courts are there ti implement current Law, not make new Law.

Courts are the wrong place for such a petition.


The law has to be amended by parliament.

Ravi Chaudhary

This law amendment also need cutting water, Food, Electricity and Transport facility to Delhi. Aap aa aa ke bata denge ke karna hai na to sare nyun tein nyun sarkate rehnge.
 
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