sanjeev_balyan
New member
aur gaam ke jato ko line m khada karke goli se uuda dena chahiye,
what a thread going on
Reservation versus Commonwealth Games
- Thread starter bls31
- Start date
aur gaam ke jato ko line m khada karke goli se uuda dena chahiye,
what a thread going on
Vipin – here is a high level analysis that I tried to do. It is still a very conservative approach. I don’t have the data but may be if you have some information then you can fill in the details in the worksheet in “green cells” and share the results. If you are still not satisfied then I can write a RTI application to the human resource ministry and get the accurate data. When I said in my reply “Even though 90% of the rural population cannot afford the fees, after reservation, 99% will still not be covered by such minuscule benefits.” so this was the the base of my statement.
View attachment 10175
View attachment 10175
http://uploading.com/files/81121b23/JAT_OBC_Analysis.xls/
And I will still be happy to answer any rational queries. Again this is just a “high level conservative analysis”.
I think it was Vijay who rightly said that in the end even if we get the reservation, it will be the city and better educated/competitive jats who will be benefited. (and then again someone was irritated). This is the truth, let the rural peopl burn their asses in the sun and draw their blood. We all know that for all the class A jobs, it will be city jats who will be benefited.
All said, I think that with our recent shamesless/selfish/abhorable behaviour and approach (to torture the people of India and threaten an internationally covered event) we have proven to the people of India that we are are backward in our thoughts. We are not the jats that we always projected and can actually droop to lower levels. We have justified our case for the backward class reservation. So, let us have the reservation.
I change my stand and I support the reservation.
View attachment 10175
View attachment 10175
http://uploading.com/files/81121b23/JAT_OBC_Analysis.xls/
And I will still be happy to answer any rational queries. Again this is just a “high level conservative analysis”.
Sirji, I believe that the basic level of education is the area that needs most attention. Unless the foundation is strong, nothing will be helpful. So, we need an agitation to improve the quality of education in rural areas. Our agitation can be directed at central and state government asking their rationale to spend exhorbitantly on games than on making schools and improving facilities. Agitation should be against the locally elected MLA to question the shameless expenditure of state govt. on propaganda of BSP thorough $1 billion worth of statues. Still even if Jats feel that we really really really really really need the reservation that can uplift the standard and quality of most jats to the level of upper cast (because now we are blatantly accepting that we are backward) the Jat leaders should protest in front of the parliament or central misters. Do not let them enter the parliament or try to cut their amenities supplies. Now I ask you a question, which you perhaps may not reply as before, was their and endeavor from Jat Leaders/communities to fight for the basic fundamental rights or to get proper education, protection and medical facilities. Below there are few points highlighted by Kapil, was there any endeavor to address those real problems?What sort of different strategy???? Do u know a practical one in the current scenerio?
Really? Do you have the data ?? Whats the source of this information?? Do you really know what benifits reservation provide???
I hope u will answer this in details same way as u ridicule things
Mene to nu lage s tu yo baja sa bajaye j he har chiz ne ridicule kare j s. Tereti mene ek be ya bat pahli bhi batayi thi
Vijay, I know that this was a reply intended for someone else. I just want to reiterate what you said. I remember that in other post where I picked on the problems and attitude of khaps and someone just picked one line and was beating around it along with others“dharmendra didn’t change his caste he changed his religion (कटुआ जाट ठीक है)”. I wish we could help this.
Kapil thanks for putting in the efforts not only highlighting by reminding fellow jats of few of the real problems that we face.
I think it was Vijay who rightly said that in the end even if we get the reservation, it will be the city and better educated/competitive jats who will be benefited. (and then again someone was irritated). This is the truth, let the rural peopl burn their asses in the sun and draw their blood. We all know that for all the class A jobs, it will be city jats who will be benefited.
All said, I think that with our recent shamesless/selfish/abhorable behaviour and approach (to torture the people of India and threaten an internationally covered event) we have proven to the people of India that we are are backward in our thoughts. We are not the jats that we always projected and can actually droop to lower levels. We have justified our case for the backward class reservation. So, let us have the reservation.
I change my stand and I support the reservation.
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Dear Nitin Dev,
I really appreciate your explaination and analysis but I couldnt understand ur spreadsheet to be honest
First of all i must say your base is wrong that 90% of rural jat cant afford books and fees. Second some Govts provide free books and education to people who belong to OBC category. You have to broaden your base to understand the true picture of benifits.
I must say ur analysis is very restricted and doesnt give the true picture. Rather than uploading the spreadsheet please put new analysis here with full explaination so that all can see it. There are lot of other factors also which influence things. Its not that simple.
I also think u went wrong where u reduced the below from total benifited seats.वर्तमान साधारण श्रेणी में जाट संख्या
Current Jats in normal category
Moreover because of ur restricted base u didnt include the reservation in educational institution ?
I am also not saying that reservation will totally remove poverty but i m just looking it from the persective the benifits it will bring to middle class and poor jats.
If it benifits only 1% of jats than I am sure they wont be fighting for it.
For others creamy layer or most of your so called people living in HUDA sector( I mean rich guys) cant get an OBC certificate(+ non-creamy layer certificate) or in other words cant enjoy OBC benifits.
Cheers
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What will happen on 10th July.
At max. (0.1% chances ) Govt. will form a group commite to look after need of reservation for jats.Jiski report agle 10 saal tak aaye gi.
Bas inhi 10 saal ki wait karte rahiyo.
You could have asked that ques stright to me or Raka ji. Raka ji asked u this question initially and than i later asked again.
And u said he changed his Caste? Raka Ji asked u "chizan ka daunsar bera pad ke bolni chahiye". You said khap didnt say anything when Dhramendra changed his caste??
What was the khap role in Dhramendra changing his religion? Make sense?
Thats all.
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akshaymalik84
Active member
Also the base of the percentage calculation should be No. of Jats applied for the vaccancy not the total no. of jats.
If one Jat gets Job it will benefit 5 other jats of his/her family.
Pleaes see the reply below. As I said that this is a conservtive approach that means I am using the numbers to boost up the numbers which may give us the rosy pictures of the benefit of reservation. Such as, jobs and educational opportunity in govt sector on annual basis are 1 lakh each. The actual number am sure is very less. Also of all the 1 lakh jobs, only ver few thousads are gazetted jobs. Most are clerical jobs or below class c. I am including 50% as the youth, not 70 % who might be benefited, that also did not help much. I appreciate your feedback but if you are more specific in telling me what you didn't undersatand then I can address it more approprietly.
We should always look at the absolute benefit not the relative benefit. We can save Rs. 50 on a book and can also save Rs. 50 on laptop buying from different sources. Most people would not care about extra Rs. 50 on laptop but would walk miles to save Rs. 50 on the book. does that ring bell. Ultimately we are dicussing the benefits of reservation to the uplift the Jat community that is mostly in Rural areas.
If one gets a job, at the most he will benefit his children (2 people) and able to send them to better schools. Again most non-gazetted jobs (clerical), the condition would not help much. Never the less it is still a valid point and I will try to factor this in. Thanks.
We should always look at the absolute benefit not the relative benefit. We can save Rs. 50 on a book and can also save Rs. 50 on laptop buying from different sources. Most people would not care about extra Rs. 50 on laptop but would walk miles to save Rs. 50 on the book.
does that ring bell. Ultimately we are dicussing the benefits of reservation to the uplift the Jat community that is mostly in Rural areas. If one gets a job, at the most he will benefit his children (2 people) and able to send them to better schools. Again most non-gazetted jobs (clerical), the condition would not help much. Never the less it is still a valid point and I will try to factor this in. Thanks.
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rakeshsehrawat
New member
भाई आपका तो हिसाब किताब ऐ नकली है देख तेरी बात का किताब पहले २ थे फेर पांच हो गए सीधा सीधा देढ्सो प्रतिशत बढ़ गया ! एक जोकड़ा सा सुना था एक रईस की लड़की को गरीब पर निबंध लिखने को दिया गया "एक आदमी गरीब था उसके नौकर भी गरीब थे उनके पास बस एक कर थी " तेरी कहानी भी या ऐ है वो बोला ये गरीब हैं इनके पास खाने को रोटी नहीं जवाब मिला की केक क्यों नहीं खाते? बालका के स्कूल की किताब पुगाई ना जाती लेपटॉप दिवावेगा ? तन्ने कुन ओ बी सी कह्गा तन्ने के इस देश में डोके लेन आना है ? अर तेरे आड़े आंगली मारे तें के आरक्षण मिलता होया रुक जागा कीमे इसी जगह दिमाग लावे ना जिस्ते तेरे गाम में बैठे किसे मानस का कुछ भला हो कीमे करना तो दूर बैठा बैठा बिरदावे और हैPleaes see the reply below. As I said that this is a conservtive approach that means I am using the numbers to boost up the numbers which may give us the rosy pictures of the benefit of reservation. Such as, jobs and educational opportunity in govt sector on annual basis are 1 lakh each. The actual number am sure is very less. Also of all the 1 lakh jobs, only ver few thousads are gazetted jobs. Most are clerical jobs or below class c. I am including 50% as the youth, not 70 % who might be benefited, that also did not help much. I appreciate your feedback but if you are more specific in telling me what you didn't undersatand then I can address it more approprietly.
We should always look at the absolute benefit not the relative benefit. We can save Rs. 50 on a book and can also save Rs. 50 on laptop buying from different sources. Most people would not care about extra Rs. 50 on laptop but would walk miles to save Rs. 50 on the book.
Yes I was ablsolutly right and that is how we can calculate the "net benefit from reservation". If today there are 2 jats who can become IAS and after reservation 5 become then the gain is of 3 seats not 5.
If one gets a job, at the most he will benefit his children (2 people) and able to send them to better schools. Again most non-gazetted jobs (clerical), the condition would not help much. Never the less it is still a valid point and I will try to factor this in. Thanks.
I dont know what this guy thinks when writing.... These are 8 out of 9 posts he posted on this thread (the one post I omitted was a copy/paste from a news report). I think mods should also sometime question these posters for further clarity on these one lines. Instead of contributing anything in terms or pros/cons he just keep throwing "gandagi" on the forum. Reply read karke ar pher yahan ulti kar ke bhaaj le hai. Manne to is fuddu ko eb apni ignore list mei ger diya hai.
1. bhai k soche s eb k yo maan jyaaga .....swaaal ae koni shart laa le chaahe .........
2. dat jaa ebe to ise ise kai fuddu pichhnange is site pe
3. kasuta gyaan n tod raakhya s , kah to tere paav pakad lyu
4. to fer udde jo kaithe ho re the wo kon the ? uddee bi delhi ke jat jaare the ......
5. JAI HIND
6. bhai rrrr wo subh tem kad aawega bata diye
7. achhaa rrr chacha nehru
8. maayat aap jaiso ki kami s ebe koum me do chaar aur koni paaa jaa ke aap berge
1. bhai k soche s eb k yo maan jyaaga .....swaaal ae koni shart laa le chaahe .........
2. dat jaa ebe to ise ise kai fuddu pichhnange is site pe
3. kasuta gyaan n tod raakhya s , kah to tere paav pakad lyu
4. to fer udde jo kaithe ho re the wo kon the ? uddee bi delhi ke jat jaare the ......
5. JAI HIND
6. bhai rrrr wo subh tem kad aawega bata diye
7. achhaa rrr chacha nehru
8. maayat aap jaiso ki kami s ebe koum me do chaar aur koni paaa jaa ke aap berge
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1. Where OBC candidates have job in the Unreserved category and as well as in OBC category. Therefore, they have the right to claim over UR or OBC job as per their choice. However, if OBC seats remain unfilled after exhausting the UR merit list, these seats will be filled by by the concerned State Quota candidates as per their existing rules and regulations. Why would those who can get job in open category would waste an OBC seat?? Some time it might happen esp in educational institution or in other jobs where rank matter but not all the time esp in jobs like conductor patwari . Hence I said u went wrong there.
2. I am not that intelligent and educated as you are but ur analysis says 13500 jats would get job in a year in reserved category?? Normally only 4000 jats get the job in today's scenerio. Many of these(if not all) 13500 would be on top of those 4000 not including as mentioned above. Common sense says if additional 13500 (ok lets say 10000 would get job than that itself is a great benifit.
Now read this Normally 4000 jat gets job per year this year 10000 got Job. it totally make sense to me . And it will make sense to those 6000 as well. In other words you are saying an additional 66.66% jat will get Jobs??????????? Isnt this blue line enough for u
Actually Rakesh has already pointed out "aapka hisab kitab e nakali he".
3. As Akshay pointed out success need to be measured as the total no of applicant. Normally jats in age group of 21-28 (mostly ) apply for job and common sense say they are not 50%
4. Also in a village structure if a guy get job he generally has 5 dependents as Askhay point out. 2 Bhuda bhudi 2 balak har ek lugayi. Bhudiyan ti bhi roti khuvani he.
Prepare again and we will review again. Good try though.
I am sure if an ordinary man like me can find so many flaws a statistics student will totally dismiss it.
2. I am not that intelligent and educated as you are but ur analysis says 13500 jats would get job in a year in reserved category?? Normally only 4000 jats get the job in today's scenerio. Many of these(if not all) 13500 would be on top of those 4000 not including as mentioned above. Common sense says if additional 13500 (ok lets say 10000 would get job than that itself is a great benifit.
Now read this Normally 4000 jat gets job per year this year 10000 got Job. it totally make sense to me . And it will make sense to those 6000 as well. In other words you are saying an additional 66.66% jat will get Jobs??????????? Isnt this blue line enough for u
Actually Rakesh has already pointed out "aapka hisab kitab e nakali he".
3. As Akshay pointed out success need to be measured as the total no of applicant. Normally jats in age group of 21-28 (mostly ) apply for job and common sense say they are not 50%
4. Also in a village structure if a guy get job he generally has 5 dependents as Askhay point out. 2 Bhuda bhudi 2 balak har ek lugayi. Bhudiyan ti bhi roti khuvani he.
Prepare again and we will review again. Good try though.
I am sure if an ordinary man like me can find so many flaws a statistics student will totally dismiss it.
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First you are saying i am not sure how effective would it be and than again u are commenting on its effectiveness???
Before making absurd comments like this wont it help if u find out how it works for Business income, agricultural income and Govt employees???
And than you would complain that I pick one line from your post??
Bhai shaheb now I understand that we both live in a different planet. For many like me and my cousins these Govt clerical jobs are still a dream. IAS ki to ve sochte hi nahi. Is there any point arguing further?
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sunillathwal
New member
Spot on Kapil... you are absolutely right.
I expected that JLanders will point out the fallacy immediately
Well, this was not my 'indigenous' theory. This flawed logic was given by my one of my friend [that couple terminate (stop) the 'reproduction' as soon as they have one boy; and couples with 2-3 girls are less in number naturally and hence the imbalance (ignored the fact that weightages of such couples will be higher].
Expecting more boys than girls (as 2nd or 3rd kid, when other older kid(s) are girl) is what people call 'The gambler's fallacy'. Chances of 1st kid or 2nd kid or 3rd kid or nth kid being a girl or boy are ~ 50-50. Any difference is unnatural (except the small difference what is expected due to finiteness).
Precisely, this was my argument! It is happening all around us; लोग-बाग़ जान बुझ के आँख बंद करया बैठे हैं,
@ Vipin. I could have picked you on every point you made but then if you don't want to understand other than "that you want to understand" then no amount of analysis can satisfy you. First you argued that how can I say that 99% or rural people wouldn't still be benefitted and now you atleast seem to agree that 99% of total rural and city population won't be benefitted then you are arguing on other points to win an argument. Are you really concerned about bringing benefit and sanity to jat community or you want to win an argument, this is your choice. I am saying this because you have not shown your agreemen on the posts and points from me and other that are really require attention to uplift our community. I am not here to win an argument or to proove anything to anyone. I live a very different life now but have come from a background that most of jats are in now. That is the only reason that I am investing my time in trying to understand different views and to try to suggest something that is more beneficial to everyone.
If I ask you that there is an abc jat contesting election and conincidently that jat also is your close and helpful relative, but at the same time there is another chamar canditate who is more qualified then whom would you like to elect for the post. I am sure most of us know the answer here. This is the different world that you and I belong too, I would still opt for a chamar or chuda if I feel that he is more qualified than my mama, tau or even bapu.
6,000 extra jats getting jobs through OBC reservation may sound very exciting (not to mention that it is at the expense of more deserving candidates, who could taken better decions to bing benefit to ordinary people), I recommeded improving basic education so that 600,000 jats can compete head on with other public school students. Also, in the favour of 6000 jat candidates, you have ignoed the plight of lacs and crores of jats or shall I say 99% of the jats.. Didn't you??
If I ask you that there is an abc jat contesting election and conincidently that jat also is your close and helpful relative, but at the same time there is another chamar canditate who is more qualified then whom would you like to elect for the post. I am sure most of us know the answer here. This is the different world that you and I belong too, I would still opt for a chamar or chuda if I feel that he is more qualified than my mama, tau or even bapu.
6,000 extra jats getting jobs through OBC reservation may sound very exciting (not to mention that it is at the expense of more deserving candidates, who could taken better decions to bing benefit to ordinary people), I recommeded improving basic education so that 600,000 jats can compete head on with other public school students. Also, in the favour of 6000 jat candidates, you have ignoed the plight of lacs and crores of jats or shall I say 99% of the jats.. Didn't you??
Nitin Dev pick me on every point who stopped u. U come from a similar back ground than why u didnt reply to post #196?????
R o bhai jat hiteshi pahli 6000 ki soch le 6 lakh ki badme sochiye. I already said it wont remove poverty totally. Also ur garibi hatao andolan can go side by side with this reservation. Yo tera basic education programe reservation pache ruk jega k. Try that and show us the results. Till than just support the benifit 6000 will get. Lol
I know u are not here to win argument but all i can see is a biased nature. Ur statement against rural Jats proves that without even trying to know the fact that how it work you are commenting on rural jats
Still in doubt read my post #96. http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?30069-Reservation-versus-Commonwealth-Games/page5. Now that situation isnt possible not at least in the next 100 years. That was just a satire on the current situation. Till than thumbs up for Jat reservation yey
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Sir, all i can do is bow my head in respect in front of such a great human.
sunillathwal
New member
Nitin, first of all most of these arguments have been discussed in detail in older threads. Please refer those.
Now, Declaring Jat of Haryana as OBC or including the JATs of UP, Delhi in central (jobs) OBC list is NOT degrading at the expense of any 'deserving' candidates. Rather it will increase the competition in OBC list and hence a better ( I should say more deserving candidate) will get the job.
Remember there is a limit of maximum 50% seats under reservation (as per the directives of Supreme court; loopholes a different issue).
Eg: 100 seat.
Typical cut-off marks: 65--- for Open Category (50 seats); 55--- OBC (27 seats); 45--- SC (13 seats); 35--- (ST seats)
Now if JAT (or for that matter any other caste from Open category) is declared as OBC, It means candidate who has 60 marks, he will get one OBC seat at the expense of OBC candidate which has the lowest mark in the previous list i.e, 55).
How including the JATs in OBC list is diluting the merit??
Your argument is valid and genuine in an India where OBC list does not exist and JATs are demanding to create OBC quota in govt jobs.
But in an India that we have: No, sir!
In fact, it is other way round, including more and more castes in 'these lists' is akin to eradicating the ill-effects of reservation!!
rakeshsehrawat
New member
हम करांगे तो छह लाख का करांगे ना तो छह हजार ने पड़े रेहान दयो उनका कीमे नहीं करना ! जिसने देखो एक बात कह के पल्ला झाड़ ले की शिक्षा का आधारभूत ढांचा ठीक करने की जरूरत है अरे वो तो जब होवेगा तब होवेगा इतने हाथ पे हाथ धर के बैठे रहो यू आरक्षण २५ प्रतिशत से शुरू होया था आर इब ५० तें ऊपर जा लिया यू पानी सर पे तें उतरे पाछे जागोगे के ?