Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions

[drrajpalsingh]

Aapka bahut dhanyavad. Aap ne jo yeh shlok dundhe hain kya unka anuvad bhi diya gaya hai?

Aapka in shloko se kya nishkarsh hai?

For Hindi translation and comments, kindly refer to : Swami Dayananda Saraswati, Veda--Rigveda Bhasha-Bhashya, Vol. 1, [Deepmala VS 2030], published by Dayananda Sansthan, New Delhi 11005,

 

[nrao]

Friend, perhaps due to oversight, it escaped your due attention as it has already been brought to the notice of the participants on the basis of references quoted by S.B. Roy vide post 547 line 4:

See: http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...gy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page28

is samay mere pas na toh Roy ki pustak hai aur na hi aur koi reference. Kya aap auska anuvad prastut kar sakte hain?

jis shlok ki baat hoh rahi hai, woh is prakar hai: इयमददाद्रभसमृणच्युतं दिवोदासं वध्र्यश्वाय दाशुषे । या शश्वन्तमाचखादावसं पणिं ता ते दात्राणि तविषा सरस्वति ||

 

[drrajpalsingh]

is samay mere pas na toh Roy ki pustak hai aur na hi aur koi reference. Kya aap auska anuvad prastut kar sakte hain?

jis shlok ki baat hoh rahi hai, woh is prakar hai: इयमददाद्रभसमृणच्युतं दिवोदासं वध्र्यश्वाय दाशुषे । या शश्वन्तमाचखादावसं पणिं ता ते दात्राणि तविषा सरस्वति ||

I Understand your insistence and helplessness so to put you at ease, I would like to reiterate that I have already replied it. [For your ready reference the above post 621 is reproduced hereinunder :

For Hindi translation and comments, kindly refer to : Swami Dayananda Saraswati, Veda--Rigveda Bhasha-Bhashya, Vol. 1, [Deepmala VS 2030], published by Dayananda Sansthan, New Delhi 11005,

If you have some newer translation or other interpretation of the RV Shloka than given by Swamiji at p. 584 of his book [ 6.61.1 quoted above], kindly come out to share with us.

Swami Dayananda Sarswati's translation and comment on the said shloka does not corroborate Mr. Romar/Tomar's contention that Divodasa was born at the banks of the Saraswati.

The onus to prove the authenticity of his statement lies on Mr. Romar/Tomar.

So contact him for getting reply expeditiously so that the discussion is not stalled indefinitely.

Thanks and best wishes,

 

[drrajpalsingh]

The learned comments of the participants are invited on the issue of Cross Contacts and Chronology as enlisted earlier.

The source supported replies or comments would be highly appreciated.

 

[romar]

I Understand your insistence and helplessness so to put you at ease, I would like to reiterate that I have already replied it. [For your ready reference the above post 621 is reproduced hereinunder :



If you have some newer translation or other interpretation of the RV Shloka than given by Swamiji at p. 584 of his book [ 6.61.1 quoted above], kindly come out to share with us.

Swami Dayananda Sarswati's translation and comment on the said shloka does not corroborate Mr. Romar/Tomar's contention that Divodasa was born at the banks of the Saraswati.

The onus to prove the authenticity of his statement lies on Mr. Romar/Tomar.

So contact him for getting reply expeditiously so that the discussion is not stalled indefinitely.

Thanks and best wishes,

Aap baat gol gol ghuma rahen hain. Aapke paas Swamiji ki kitaab hai, aapne usme 6.61.1 ka anuvaad padha hai aur aap use yahan likhne me katra rahe hain. Nasihat yeh de rahe hain ki hum sab swamiji ki kitab padhen.

Yeh theek nahi hai. Ek taraf doosro so aap yeh mangte hai ki wo aapko har cheej ka poora anuvad aur reference dein. Lekin jab doosre aapse inhi cheejon ki maang karte hain to aap kitaab padhne ko kehte hain.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Aap baat gol gol ghuma rahen hain. Aapke paas Swamiji ki kitaab hai, aapne usme 6.61.1 ka anuvaad padha hai aur aap use yahan likhne me katra rahe hain. Nasihat yeh de rahe hain ki hum sab swamiji ki kitab padhen.

Yeh theek nahi hai. Ek taraf doosro so aap yeh mangte hai ki wo aapko har cheej ka poora anuvad aur reference dein. Lekin jab doosre aapse inhi cheejon ki maang karte hain to aap kitaab padhne ko kehte hain.

Friend,

There is nothing topsy turvy in it. The real problem is I do not know typology of Rigvedic Sanskrit and the Sukta/Mantra is in Skt. However,you insist that I produce proof, I will try to get its photocopy and paste it at the earliest possible.

Thanks.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

It is for the information of those who are interested in undertaking deeper insight in the study of Rigveda and its commentaries, a few books are listed below:

RigvedaBhashya by Atamananda, Lahore, 1932.

--------------- by Gurukul Kangari University, Book No. 212/42

--------------- by Mudgal, Bhag 1,2 Hoshiarpur, 1965, 1966.

--------------- by Sayan, Bhag 1-4, Pune, 1940 and Bhag 1-4 [Maxmueller edited], Varanasi, 1966.

-------------- by Swami Dayananda saraswati, Bhag 2, Prayag, 1938

--------------- by Swami Dayananda Saraswati, Bhag 1-9; Ajmer, Samvat 1973 to 2011.

Rigveda Vyakhya, Madhava Bhatt, Bhag 1,1939 and Bhag 2, 1947, Adiyar Library.

Rigveda Bhashabhasya, Jaideva Sharma, Khand 3, Ajmer, samvat 2014 vikrami.

Rigvedic Itihas, Hari Ram Dhasmana, Lucknow, VS 2010.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

In continuation of the above list, Some books in English on Vedas are listed below :

A Vedic Reader for Students--A.A. Macdonell, OUP, London, 1957.

The Vedas, F. MaxMuller, Varanasi, 1969.

Vedic Hymns, Part 1, [The Sacred Books of the East, Vol. XXXII] F. MaxMuller, Delhi 1975.

The Rigveda Samhita, Vol V, H. Wilson, Cosmo Publications, NewDelhi, 1977.

Studies in Vedic Intrepretations [on the Lines of Shri Aurbindo] A.B. Purni, Varansi, 1963.

Vdic Mythology, A.A. Macdonel translated into Hindi by Dr.Suryakanta Shastri, Vedic Devasastra, Delhi, 1961.

------------------------------ translated into Hindi, Ramkumar Rai, Vedic Mythology, Varanasi, 1961.

Two more Hindi Books: Vedic Kosa, Bhagawadad edited, Bhag 1, Lahore, 1926

Vedic ItihasarthaNirnaya, Shivshankar Sharma, Gurukul Kangaari,, 1909.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Matbal yeh pucha thha ki kya yeh shodh shastri bata sakte hain apni shodh ke dwara ki dilli ki killi kitni purani hai?

Kindly decide yourself the merit of the system after reading the following text from the said paper :

"The nuclear techniques which can be usually applied for such type of studies are Carbon dating, PIXE (Proton Induced X-ray Emission), XRF (X-ray fluorescence) and NAA (neutron activation analysis) etc. These methods are very fast, non-destructive and multi elemental [1]. Thus, a large number of objects from historical excavations or museum collections can be analyzed by applying these technologies [2]. The basic principle involved in PIXE is the interaction of incident charged particle with the target (historical important object) and subsequently emission of character fluoresced X-rays from the sample are collected and displayed with either energy dispersive or wavelength dispersive detector systems. The elements are identified by the wavelengths (qualitative) of the emitted X-rays while the concentrations of the elements present in the sample are determined by the intensity of those X-rays (quantitative) [3]. "

REFERENCES

1. B.N. Jones and J.L. Campbell, Nucl. Instr. and Meth. B258 (2007) 299.
2. M. Goudarzi, F. Shkouhi, M. Lamehi-Rachti and P. Oliai, Nucl. Instr. and Meth. B258 (2007) 299.

3. H. Paul and J. Sacher, At. Data Nucl. Data Tables 42 (1989) 105.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Friends,

The purpose of the thread had been to find out the entry of last 'Aryan' wave into India and also to look for their date/chronology. More or less, both the ends have been met as cross contacts have been established and S.B Roy has convincingly provided an answer to both the questions. If the under mentioned posts taken together are read, they provide the reply.


Post 579 : http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...gy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page29

and

Post 585 : http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...gy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page30

Since no worthwhile purpose would be served by lingering on the thread without giving convincing arguments, I think, at the present state of our knowledge, the purpose has been achieved that the last fight between the Devas and Asuras was fought on the banks of Ravi river in which in spite of facing opposition from divergent groups of people spread from modern Indian territories to the vast stretch of Central Asia upto Caspian Sea, Divodasa II [D.N. 68] emerged victorious in c.1900 B.C.

The cross contacts established by the scholar give ample signs of the pains taken by him to give a firm foundation to the Proto-history of India and as such to History of Asia of the day.

It is now for the historians to take this research finding to further understand other developments related with those periods of history as has been done in the case of the Cross Contact between Asoka and Antiok successfully.

I acknowledge all the authors from whose works large passages have been quoted unhesitatingly to advance an argument or to support some averment; to all the contributors in this discussion including Sarvashri Ravi Chaudhary, L.R. Burdak, D.N.Deswal, Prashant, N. Rao, Tomar/Romer and all others.

Last but not the least, I am grateful to Shri Narendra Kharb for his help in clearing many a misty points on the issue.

Thanks, thank you all. Till we meet again on newer thread, bye bye.

Adieu !

 

[nrao]

Friends,

The purpose of the thread had been to find out the entry of last 'Aryan' wave into India and also to look for their date/chronology. More or less, both the ends have been met as cross contacts have been established and S.B Roy has convincingly provided an answer to both the questions. If the under mentioned posts taken together are read, they provide the reply.


Post 579 : http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...gy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page29

and

Post 585 : http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...gy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page30

Since no worthwhile purpose would be served by lingering on the thread without giving convincing arguments, I think, at the present state of our knowledge, the purpose has been achieved that the last fight between the Devas and Asuras was fought on the banks of Ravi river in which in spite of facing opposition from divergent groups of people spread from modern Indian territories to the vast stretch of Central Asia upto Caspian Sea, Divodasa II [D.N. 68] emerged victorious in c.1900 B.C.

The cross contacts established by the scholar give ample signs of the pains taken by him to give a firm foundation to the Proto-history of India and as such to History of Asia of the day.

It is now for the historians to take this research finding to further understand other developments related with those periods of history as has been done in the case of the Cross Contact between Asoka and Antiok successfully.

I acknowledge all the authors from whose works large passages have been quoted unhesitatingly to advance an argument or to support some averment; to all the contributors in this discussion including Sarvashri Ravi Chaudhary, L.R. Burdak, D.N.Deswal, Prashant, N. Rao, Tomar/Romer and all others.

Last but not the least, I am grateful to Shri Narendra Kharb for his help in clearing many a misty points on the issue.

Thanks, thank you all. Till we meet again on newer thread, bye bye.

Adieu !

Yeh toh Roy ka mat hai aur kuch bhi convincing nahin hai. Agar yeh aapka bhi mat hai toh phir aap bhi Roy ki sthithi mein hoh.

 

[nrao]

I Understand your insistence and helplessness so to put you at ease, I would like to reiterate that I have already replied it. [For your ready reference the above post 621 is reproduced hereinunder :

If you have some newer translation or other interpretation of the RV Shloka than given by Swamiji at p. 584 of his book [ 6.61.1 quoted above], kindly come out to share with us.

Swami Dayananda Sarswati's translation and comment on the said shloka does not corroborate Mr. Romar/Tomar's contention that Divodasa was born at the banks of the Saraswati.

The onus to prove the authenticity of his statement lies on Mr. Romar/Tomar.

So contact him for getting reply expeditiously so that the discussion is not stalled indefinitely.

Thanks and best wishes,

Aapne abhi tak toh kuch bataya nahin phir aur yeh bol diya ki aur yeh sab padho. us pankti ka anuvad kya hai, yeh bataiye.

 

[prashantacmet]

http://www.vedicgranth.org/what_are_vedic_granth/the-four-veda/rig-ved

On this web page, there are many PDFs regarding rigvedas (translated)..so here we can get some help..

In PDF RigVeda-Hindi-SoamiDivyanand.pdf ( please download from above given link) at page no. 544 (mandal 6, sukta 61. mantra 1)..first mantra is the translation of above mantra.. RISHI is Bhardwaaz and DEVTA is written as Saraswati.... Am i reading the translation of mantra under dsicussion?

In the above book, translation of this mantra nothing says about saraswati river, divodasa as a person, nothing like some one was born somewhere.. I can not paste the translated stuff here. Now Mr. romar..how did u translated that mantra and came to conclusion that divodas was born at the bank of saraswati....

 

[prashantacmet]

Aapne abhi tak toh kuch bataya nahin phir aur yeh bol diya ki aur yeh sab padho. us pankti ka anuvad kya hai, yeh bataiye.

upper wali post main reference hai..app usse padho aur batao aap isse kya samjhe..!

 

[romar]

http://www.vedicgranth.org/what_are_vedic_granth/the-four-veda/rig-ved

On this web page, there are many PDFs regarding rigvedas (translated)..so here we can get some help..

In PDF RigVeda-Hindi-SoamiDivyanand.pdf ( please download from above given link) at page no. 544 (mandal 6, sukta 61. mantra 1)..first mantra is the translation of above mantra.. RISHI is Bhardwaaz and DEVTA is written as Saraswati.... Am i reading the translation of mantra under dsicussion?

In the above book, translation of this mantra nothing says about saraswati river, divodasa as a person, nothing like some one was born somewhere.. I can not paste the translated stuff here. Now Mr. romar..how did u translated that mantra and came to conclusion that divodas was born at the bank of saraswati....

Divyanand ji ki bilkul bekar translation hai. Sanskrit shloka yeh diya hai:

इयमददाद्रभसमृणच्युतं दिवोदासं वध्र्यश्वाय दाशुषे ।
या शश्वन्तमाचखादावसं पणिं ता ते दात्राणि तविषा सरस्वति ||

Isme aap dekhen Divodas ke Pita वध्र्यश्वाय ke baare me likha hai ki Saraswati ki tapasya se unhe ek putra ki prapti hui.

Ab Rajpal ji aur Kharb ji aur Roy ji ko yeh batan hai ki Divodas ke pita Iran se chalkar Haryana Saraswati se putra prapti karen ke liye kyon pahunche.

Majak bahut der se chal rahi hai. Jab Swami Dayanand ke shlok ka varnan pucha jaat hai to uttar koi mil nahi raha. Kuch ghal mel hai.

 

[prashantacmet]

to aap hi iska translation hindi main likh de ayha..aapne bhi to aaj tak translation nahui likha....agar divyananad ka translation bekaar hai..to aap kiska translation maante hai..wo yaha likhiye...aur reference bhi likhiye....ghal -mel to aap bhi kar rahe hai...agar aapko correct translation aur uska referenc epata hai to usse likhn emain kya harz hai.......

 

[romar]

to aap hi iska translation hindi main likh de ayha..aapne bhi to aaj tak translation nahui likha....agar divyananad ka translation bekaar hai..to aap kiska translation maante hai..wo yaha likhiye...aur reference bhi likhiye....ghal -mel to aap bhi kar rahe hai...agar aapko correct translation aur uska referenc epata hai to usse likhn emain kya harz hai.......

Bhai yeh to mera apna translation hai. Thodi bahut Sanskrit aati hai to isliye likh diya. Lekin ajeeb yeh hai ki aapko meri baat ghaal meil lag rahi jabki anya buddhijivi theek lag rahe hain jinhone yeh kaha ki ve swami dayananand ke anuvad prastut karenge aur aaj tak kiya nahin.

Divodas, unke pita aur Saraswati nadi kya aapke padhne mein nahi aa rahe hain shlok mein? Kya aap devnagari bhasha padh sakte hain?

 

[prashantacmet]

Bhai yeh to mera apna translation hai. Thodi bahut Sanskrit aati hai to isliye likh diya. Lekin ajeeb yeh hai ki aapko meri baat ghaal meil lag rahi jabki anya buddhijivi theek lag rahe hain jinhone yeh kaha ki ve swami dayananand ke anuvad prastut karenge aur aaj tak kiya nahin.

Divodas, unke pita aur Saraswati nadi kya aapke padhne mein nahi aa rahe hain shlok mein? Kya aap devnagari bhasha padh sakte hain?

Romar sahab!..History merely doe snot run on speculation...On one side you are rejecting the translation of divyanand and calling it a trash box and on the basis of your THODI BAGHT SANSKRIT knowledge..you just extract..saraswati, divodasa and assume/assure your own translation....how can a layman can accept it as a universal truth..you also never wrote teh compelte translation..so If I can not buy the other ppl theory ..I also will not buy yours..if others are doing GHAAL-MEL..you are alos part of them...agar doosre proof nahi de arhe aur aapke pass proof hai to aap usse dijiye na...fir main kahoonga ki aap ghal-mel nahi kar rahe..waise aapki THODI-BAHUT knowledge ke hisaab se aapki kahi baate satya nahi maan sakta...aap apna khud ka translation dijiye..aur kewal kisi ek sanskrit scholar se uska anumodan karaiye..jaise ki swami dayananad ki book. ya koi aur book....maaf kijiye romar sahab itna to aapko pesh karna hi padega!....aap divyananad ka translation nahi maante...aur main aapke 2 word ak translation nahi maanta..
Rajpal Ji...aap swani dayanand ka translation kyoun nahi prasut karte..kya dikkat hai usme..agar paste nahi akr sake to koi online reference do..ya fir 2 line hi likh do yaha

 

[romar]

Romar sahab!..History merely doe snot run on speculation...On one side you are rejecting the translation of divyanand and calling it a trash box and on the basis of your THODI BAGHT SANSKRIT knowledge..you just extract..saraswati, divodasa and assume/assure your own translation....how can a layman can accept it as a universal truth..you also never wrote teh compelte translation..so If I can not buy the other ppl theory ..I also will not buy yours..if others are doing GHAAL-MEL..you are alos part of them...agar doosre proof nahi de arhe aur aapke pass proof hai to aap usse dijiye na...fir main kahoonga ki aap ghal-mel nahi kar rahe..waise aapki THODI-BAHUT knowledge ke hisaab se aapki kahi baate satya nahi maan sakta...aap apna khud ka translation dijiye..aur kewal kisi ek sanskrit scholar se uska anumodan karaiye..jaise ki swami dayananad ki book. ya koi aur book....maaf kijiye romar sahab itna to aapko pesh karna hi padega!....aap divyananad ka translation nahi maante...aur main aapke 2 word ak translation nahi maanta..
Rajpal Ji...aap swani dayanand ka translation kyoun nahi prasut karte..kya dikkat hai usme..agar paste nahi akr sake to koi online reference do..ya fir 2 line hi likh do yaha

Aap bahut bol rahen hain bina samjhe. Ek baat karne ka tareeka hota hai aur Sanskrit thodi bahut aati hai se matlab hai ki maine jo shloka 6.61.1 ke baare mein likha hai main apni baat per pura bharosa karta hoon. Yeh majak ka chetra nahin hai.

Phir bhi chunki aap puch rahe hain aap ise dekhiye:
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/features/10-12/features2599.htm

http://www.voiceofdharma.org/indology/ReplytoWitzel.html

 

[romar]

Aap bahut bol rahen hain bina samjhe. Ek baat karne ka tareeka hota hai aur Sanskrit thodi bahut aati hai se matlab hai ki maine jo shloka 6.61.1 ke baare mein likha hai main apni baat per pura bharosa karta hoon. Yeh majak ka chetra nahin hai.

Phir bhi chunki aap puch rahe hain aap ise dekhiye:
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/features/10-12/features2599.htm

http://www.voiceofdharma.org/indology/ReplytoWitzel.html

Aur ek anuvaad acharya Horace Hyman Wilson ki pustak se: isme unhone Rigved ka anuvad kiya hai aur 6.61.1 ke anuvad kuch is prakar hai:


"She gave to the donor of the oblations, Vadhryaswa, a son. DivodasA 1 endowed with speed, and acquitting the debt (due to gods and progenitors); she who destroyed the churlish niggard, (thinking) only of himself:' 2 such are thy great bounties, Sara- swati"




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