drrajpalsingh
New member
Perhaps, you are also committing the same sin because this sample link given by you also falls in the same category of posts as is being labeled as 'copy paste',
Isn't it so?
Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions
- Thread starter drrajpalsingh
- Start date
Perhaps, you are also committing the same sin because this sample link given by you also falls in the same category of posts as is being labeled as 'copy paste',
Isn't it so?
narenderkharb
Active member
Bhai ji jo Aapko johad nazar aate hain vo Sistan basin jo Afghanistan or Iran me mojudh hai uska life support system hai.
Rigvedic sarsvati to Vedic period mein hi dry up hona suru ho gayi thi .Various lakes /saras that charcterise its name Sarswati were earlier merged in one Hamun ...They supported a rich civilization and agriculture in ancient times .Agriculture and Human settlements in this area are recorded as early as 3200 BC .Historical sites as burnt city give evidence to earlier vibrant life here.This was just to clear your Johad concept.Any way...
Ranbir bhai ...Aab Aaap jara Dimaag pe Jor lagana.........
Aap ye to manate hoge ki ....River Kubha,Kurram ,Gomal,Swatu......etc all rivers close to river Haravati in Afghanistan are again and again mentioned in Rigveda.......
Phir bhai aisi kaya vajah hogi ki unhone in sabase mahatav purn river Sarswati /Haravati ko aapne vedo me varnan karana ucchit nahi samajha. Ek river jo us vakat eik vast population ko support karati thi .........Aisi kaya vajah hogi ki vo Kubha Gomal ko to mention karenge lekin Helmund jo us samay Sarswati kahlati the ke liye Yamunanagar ke baare mein Sochenge.Kaya unko us area ki sarswati ka naam lena nissidh(taboo )tha.....
Answer simple hai Bhai ji Vo sarswati ussi helmund ko kah rahe the jo in river(Gomal Kubha Khurram) se baddi or inkae paas thi.
Ps...Kanhi ye Kubha Khurram river ko Aap Narwana ke Aas pass to nahi mannate ?
Last edited:
narenderkharb
Active member
Ranbir bhai Aap ke saath problem ye hai ki AAP uttar padhane se phale hi bhag lete ho ......What I wrote is it is our interpretation of sequence of rivers as their postioning .... may or may not be true.....Iss ka matlab samajhe aap? Iss mantr me yeh to nahi kaha gaya gi sarswati river Yamuna or Satluj ke bich mein bah rahi thi ...Ya aisa kaha hai ? Secondly since it is in late mandala there may have been a renaming or original ghagghar river as sarswati by Brahmins as I mentioned earlier that name of sacred rivers are often given to other rivers when people move from one place to other.Chalo Choodho isko......
Bhai ji Aap jara Dimag laga ke sochana ki Itna Pavitr or sacred name Sarswati choodh kar ye Haryana wale ise Ghaggar kyun kahane laage ...Ye Irani to usse Sarswati se Harhvati or Seutmant se Helmand kahate hue uske original name ko nahi bhule ...Aissa kyon ..??
Regarding Aryavarta ye vedic text Puran to yahi kahate hain ki Aryavarta was east of Vinasana and west of Kalika van Aab Aap in Brahmans se Jayada janate ho to Aap hi batta dijiyega.
Brahamns se Yaad Aaya inko Iranin term for Brahmans is Athrvans .One of Four Ancient Scared text is Athrva Veda ...
Ye to Aapke anusar Indians ne likha tha to uska naam Brahm VED Kayon nahi kha gaya ??
Kaya aisa hua hoga ki Indian Brahmans went to Iran wrote Athrav veda and imported back same to India.
Sidhi Baat to yah samajh aati ki Athraveda was written on Iranian lands named Athrvaveda and later priests taught it to gangetic Brahmans.
Last edited:
narenderkharb
Active member
Bhai ji Kahin Aap bhi Puru ki puri to nahi uttar rahe ...I mean Puri se tulana to nahi kar rahe ????
Agar aissa hai
to bhai Aapna majak mat udvana kyonki ye Puri(khatri) to Indo Greeks(yavana) ka a chotta sa clan hai jo kaal Aaya tha ??
Inke blood sample ke Haplogroup study se inka relation (h Haplogroup) Indo Greek kesath prove hota hai .Bhai ji Eik i DNA study hai Punjab ke Jats Khatri or Brahmans ke uppar usse padhna
Aap ke kai concepts clear ho jayenge.
Last edited:
narenderkharb
Active member
Since you are new jin ke article Aap padhane ki kah rahen hai unke saath hum pahale
discussion kar chuke hain .
Is Bharat vani ke Alawa Hindunet. Voice of dharma Hindu Unity sulekha IDF etc kai site hain jaha ye Hindutava lobby active hai.
Dicussion mein Yeh Aapani reasoning ki potali baandh kar side pe rakh kar post likhate hain. Anyway Aapko inkai kisi Bat mein Daam laghe to mujhae batana uska Main Avasya uttar dungaa.
Lekin Aaap Aapne aap to critical examine karna kabhi mat chodana as only reasoning leads you to truth.
narenderkharb
Active member
Romar ji Aab Aap phatak se mere parshno ke uttar dijiye.......
Aapa ke ansusar yeh Arya to yahi gangetic planes mein rahate the in that case'...
1 While they remembered /Worshipped/Praised ...Sarswati Indus again and again why they ignored most sacared and mighty river of their own reigon by just giving a mere passing referencethat too in a late mandala.
Even a very small river like SARYU near ganga ,was mentined many times than whyt river Ganga was invisible to them in earlier mandalas ...while they would have benefited most from its holy water ...Why So ????
2 Dussari Jab Sarswati /Harvati ke saath ki saari kubha khurram swat gomal etc inone yaad kar ke likh di to Aaap ye kaise kah sakate ki iinnone bigger Sarswati /Harahvati ka naam nahi likha hoga?
Why are they remembering central Asian rivers like Vaxu/Oxsus,Syr/Syra (amu and syr dariya)on the other hand they are not familiar with brahmputra ,mahanadi etc in Rigveda .Why it is so ???
Doesn,t this indicate their presence in areas near to them than gangetic Planes?
3 Ye Aryavarta /Kurukhsetra etc kyon in rivers ke saath sahi nahi baith rahe ?
4 Ye Turu ,etc. Odissa Andhra me kya Redddi Rao ban gaye kaya? if not where they disappeared?
Can you suggest how these Pancha Jana relate to present people?
5 Why and when a sacared name like Sarswati was dropped and a confusing name like Ghaggar was adopted by Indians any rationale for same ??
Let us begin with this...
I would be Happy if Ravi ji answer them or help romar in his answers.
If you find difficulty in explainiig all just explain question 2.
Aapa ke ansusar yeh Arya to yahi gangetic planes mein rahate the in that case'...
1 While they remembered /Worshipped/Praised ...Sarswati Indus again and again why they ignored most sacared and mighty river of their own reigon by just giving a mere passing referencethat too in a late mandala.
Even a very small river like SARYU near ganga ,was mentined many times than whyt river Ganga was invisible to them in earlier mandalas ...while they would have benefited most from its holy water ...Why So ????
2 Dussari Jab Sarswati /Harvati ke saath ki saari kubha khurram swat gomal etc inone yaad kar ke likh di to Aaap ye kaise kah sakate ki iinnone bigger Sarswati /Harahvati ka naam nahi likha hoga?
Why are they remembering central Asian rivers like Vaxu/Oxsus,Syr/Syra (amu and syr dariya)on the other hand they are not familiar with brahmputra ,mahanadi etc in Rigveda .Why it is so ???
Doesn,t this indicate their presence in areas near to them than gangetic Planes?
3 Ye Aryavarta /Kurukhsetra etc kyon in rivers ke saath sahi nahi baith rahe ?
4 Ye Turu ,etc. Odissa Andhra me kya Redddi Rao ban gaye kaya? if not where they disappeared?
Can you suggest how these Pancha Jana relate to present people?
5 Why and when a sacared name like Sarswati was dropped and a confusing name like Ghaggar was adopted by Indians any rationale for same ??
Let us begin with this...
I would be Happy if Ravi ji answer them or help romar in his answers.
If you find difficulty in explainiig all just explain question 2.
Last edited:
Jara yeh batayen ki Avesta mein Saraswati kitni baar likhi milti hai? Uska route kya tha? Kya veh parvat se samudra tak pahunchti hui likhi hai? Agar nahi to dono Gramthon ki Saraswati alag alag jagahon per thhi. Bharat wali bharat mein aur Iran wali Iran mein. Jo ek Saraswati ko doosri jagah maan rahe hain unhe mool stotra ka hawala dekar tathya dena padega. Aap hawa mein baat kar rahe hain.
Bahut aasan tarika hai duudh ka duudh aur paani ka paani. Rigved ke shloka dekh lijiye aur Avesta ke. Yahan prastut kar dijiye aur aapko in dono nadiyon ki geography samajh aaram se aa jayegi. Aap ne abhi tak rigved mein saraswati ki geography samajhne ka koi prayaas nahi kiya hai. Thoda sa kasht kar lijiye acha rahega.
Kya Rigved ke likhne wale itne anaari samajh rakhe hain ki weh ek johad ko samudra likhenge? Rigved ki saraswati samudra tak pahunchti hai. Iran ki nadi johad mein girti hai. Dono barabar kaise ho gayi?
Aap ne sahi addhyan nahi kiya. Rigved mein saraswati ke tootne ka koi jikar nahi hai. Aur veh parvat se samudra tak pahunchti hai. Rigved ke baad likhe gaye granthon mein is nadi ke tootne ka varnan hai jaise ki pehle bhi likha ja chuja hai. Irani nadi jiske aap hawala de rahen hain veh kabhi bhi samudra tak nahin pahunchi. Aap hawai kile bana rahe hain.
Wah Kuba Kurram ko aap apni jagah maan rahe hain aur Ganga Yamuna Saraswati ke baare mein aapko sanshay hai ki veh apni aaj ki jagah per hai ki nahin. Yeh dogli niti hai aur galat hai. Ya to saari nadiyon ko unke aaj ke sthan per maano ya kisi ko nahin.
Aapki baatein hawai kile hain. Jab tak aap yeh sidh nahi karte pakke pramaan ke saath ki Rigved ki Ganga, Jamuna aur saraswati aadi Iran mein hain artharth rigved ki saari bharat mein milne wali nadiyan Iran mei hain aur jo border per hain jaise kurram aadi apne sahi jagah per hai aapki baat solah aan ne bekaar hai.
Bilkul aisa hi hai. Shlok mein JITNI nadiyAn hai we sabhi aaj bhi apne usi sthan pe hain jo Rigved mein likha hai. To kya kaaran hai ki sirf Saraswati ki jagah galat hai?
Aapko ghaggar nadi ki jyada jaankari hai nahi. Thoda vaigyaniko ke lekh padhe to shayad fayada hoga. Khair aap is nakshe ko dekhen aur jara samajhiye ki jise aap ghaggar keh rahein hain us nadi per kitne bade bade shahar base hut thhe.
http://micheldanino.voiceofdharma.com/images/map.jpg
Yeh to manghadant sa deekh raha hai. Kuch pramaan dijiye ki kaunsi kitaab mein aisa likha hai.
Baat to bahut badi badi kar rahen hai Kuch pramaan to deekh nahi raha hai. Atharv veda mein se pramaan dijiye ki is ved me iran ka jikar hai. Manghadant baatein jaakto ke liye to theek hai parantu yahan chalni mushkil hai.
Uncle ji manghadant baate tikti nahi. Pramaan tikta hai jo aap dete nahin.
Seedha sa kaaran hai Saraswati nadi ke tootne aur sookhne se pehle yeh nadi sabse jyaada pooji jaati thhi. Jo maine nakhsa diya hai use jara samajhiye. Jab is naadi mein paani sookh gaya tab arya log doosri nadiyon ke dhore jakar basne lage aur ganga ki mehttavta badhne lagi.
Main kaise maanonga prashan nahi hai. Prashan hai ki Rigved mein kya likha hai. Aap Avesta se is nadi ka refernece khul ke kyon nahi de rahe hain? Aapki samajh mein bharat ki saraswati nadi ki geography aayi nahi hai. Thoda kasht kijiye panne padhne ka.
Rigved ke likhne walo ne un nadiyon ka jikar kiya jahan tak unki sabhyata ke aadmi jaya karte thhe. Agar aap thoda mehnat karenge to oayenge ki jo mesopotamia ka civilization thha wahan per harappa ke bahut se objects mile hain. Inhe bharat ke vyapaari wahan le jaaya karte thhe. Saaf dikhai de raha hai ki paschim ki nadiyan kyon varnit hai. Haan ek baat aur mesopotamia aur anya pashcim ke civilization ke objects harappa civilization ke shaharon mein nahi paaye gaye. Vyapaar kaafi ek tarfa ttha. Kitaben is vishey per bahut hain koi si pakad lijiye.
Nahin.
Sau feesdi sahi baith rahe hain. Hawai kile wale banane waalo ke samajhne ka farak hai.
Thoda sa gyan Mahabharat se bhi le lein to accha rahega.
Mahabharata - Adi Parva, Chapter 85, shloka 34
"The sons of Yadu are known by the name of the Yadavas: while those of Turvasu
have come to be called the Yavanas. And the sons of Drahyu are the Bhojas, while
those of Anu, the Mlechchhas. The progeny of Puru, however, are the Pauravas,
amongst whom, O monarch, thou art born, in order to rule for a thousand years
with thy passions under complete control.'"
bhugraha ka apbrahmsh ghaggar hai. jo nadi dharti ke bhitar yaani bhugraha ho gayi use log ghaggar kehne lage.
drrajpalsingh
New member
This means that you admit that Aryans had not advanced beyond Indian Sarsvati till the date it dried up and disappeared.
In other words your statement conveys that the Aryans went towards other rivers including the Ganges [as they did not live in that Area before and only advanced towards that area] after Indian Saraswati discontinued to flow in full measure and ultimately dried up.
What date line/chronology would you assign to this event when they came in contact with Doab of Yamuna and Ganga and interior India [now known as Uttrakhand and UP, Bihar etc].
Thanks
drrajpalsingh
New member
Friend,
It is good signal that to support your arguments you have left your sole dependence on the Rigveda. It would be in the fitness of things if you broaden your vision and try to reach out to other sources both indigenous and foreign to arrive at an objective conclusion not subjective view point.
What according to you is the interpretation of the Mahabharata shaloka quoted above as regards the regions inhabited by these tribes during the Rigvedic, later Vedic and epic periods of Indian Proto History and also suggest the dates of these three periods along with gradual change of the locale where these tribes were migrating.
Were malechhas and Yavanas kept in Aryan fold, Vedic fold or
The priestly class considered them out of the influence of the Brahamanism and declared them Malechhas/Yavanas
as outcastes/untouchables/foreigneers during the Rigvedic or later Vedic and Epic period.
Thanks.
drrajpalsingh
New member
You are right in your identification of the original abode of the Indo-Aryans and Indo-Iranians i.e. Central Asia as the rivers and mountains identified by the scholars have identified by using all the available modern tools of research.
Since they had not crossed the region beyond Indian Saraswati, if we agree to accept even Mr. Romar/Tomar's view only for the sake of argument, then how you expect that they would sing songs in praise of the Yamuna or Ganges when the Rigvedic verses were composed as his post shows:
Seedha sa kaaran hai Saraswati nadi ke tootne aur sookhne se pehle yeh nadi sabse jyaada pooji jaati thhi. Jo maine nakhsa diya hai use jara samajhiye. Jab is naadi mein paani sookh gaya tab arya log doosri nadiyon ke dhore jakar basne lage aur ganga ki mehttavta badhne lagi.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
....................................
Thanks
drrajpalsingh
New member
Friend,
It is good that you have agreed to accept at least two rivers named Sarasvati one in Iran and the other in India, now dried up, compelling Indian Aryans to find out other river banks for their habitation.
Der Aye;
Duroosata Aye.
Thanks for your positive attitude and for your having to accept this fundamental issue.
Hope more positive changes in your scholarly growth !
Aapne kuch galat samajh liya. Mera ek prashan hai apse aur Kharbji se ki Saraswati nadi ka ullekh Iraniyon ke granth se deven. Doosri baat main yeh hargij nahi kah raha hoon ki bharatiya arya iran se aaye. Sirf itna kaha tha ki jab bharat ki Saraswati nadi mein paani kam hua to uske aas paas ke base hue log uth kar anya nadiyon ke paas bas gaye aur any nadiyan joki unker khet paani se bharti thhi mehtavpoorn hoti chali gayi.
Isse Iran ka kya lena dena? Aap har cheej aur baat Iran mein kyon pahuncha dete hain?
drrajpalsingh
New member
Friend,
What is the meaning of the bold line in your post quoted below:
Jara yeh batayen ki Avesta mein Saraswati kitni baar likhi milti hai? Uska route kya tha? Kya veh parvat se samudra tak pahunchti hui likhi hai? Agar nahi to dono Gramthon ki Saraswati alag alag jagahon per thhi. Bharat wali bharat mein aur Iran wali Iran mein. ...................."
Under the circumstances, this is finally brought to your notice that:
For identification of the Saraswati in Iran, you are requested to turn to earlier posts based upon sources quoted in the thread, where full discussion is available.
Even then, if you are bent upon to seek, now and then the same information and raising old questions targeted at me or any other
and also that
you do not want to stick to your own statements like the one that there are two Sarasvati Rivers out of which one is in Iran
as agreed by you,
then,
it is beyond the capacity of any person to indulge in fruitless dialogue/discussion with you.
Thanks
Friend,
What is the meaning of the bold line in your post quoted below:
Originally Posted by Romar
Jara yeh batayen ki Avesta mein Saraswati kitni baar likhi milti hai? Uska route kya tha? Kya veh parvat se samudra tak pahunchti hui likhi hai? Agar nahi to dono Gramthon ki Saraswati alag alag jagahon per thhi. Bharat wali bharat mein aur Iran wali Iran mein. ...................."
Aap bahut jor de rahen hai ki ek saraswati iran main hai. Jise angrezi mein kehte hain benefit of doubt voh aapko diya jaa raha hai kyonki kya pata aap sahin ho? Udharan aur pramaan to apne diya nahi ki avesta mein kahan likha hai ki unki nadi samudra tak pahunchi aur divodas ka janam saraswati ki den hai. Phir bhi aap ghutti pila rahe hain ki Divodas ka parivar irani hai. Kaise aapki baat maan li jaaye? Kya aajkal history mein mool stotro ka hawala dena band ho gaya hai aur phalane ne dhikade ne yeh ya voh keh diya se kaam chal jaata hai?
Yeh post aapke liye likhi gayi thhi aur aaj tak jawab dikhai nahi diya:
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...er-discussions&p=335111&viewfull=1#post335111
Rigved mein di gayi Saraswati nadi Yamuna aur Sutlej ke beech wale sthan mein hi thi. Kisi aur sthanon mein iske hona ka koi pramaan nahin hai.
Yeh 6 mandal ke shlok bade hi aache udharan hain. Yeh baat sabko pata hai ki 6 mandal mein kewal 3 hi nadiyon ka varnan hai: Ganga, Yamuna aur Saraswati. Joh log Saraswati ko Afg/Iran mein pahuncha rahe hain, unhe Ganga aur Yamuna bhi Afg/Iran mein dalni hogi kyonki chathe (6) mandal ki rachna karne wale ne kewal Ganga, Yamuna aur Saraswati ka varnan kiya hai. Agar Saraswati Afg/Iran mein thi aur Ganga, Yamuna aapne vartmaan wale sthan per toh beech ki koi naadi dekhi hi nahin varna uska avashya is Mandal mein varnan hota. Aur ya phir woh rishi Ganga aur Yamuna se aank meech kar Afg/Iran wali Saraswati tak jate honge aur isi tarah se wapas bhi aate honge. Beech ki sab nadiyan gayab hain.