drrajpalsingh
New member
Dr. Sahib, what is the real syntax in the matter under reference !
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Research on history of Jat clans
- Thread starter lrburdak
- Start date
Dr. Sahib, what is the real syntax in the matter under reference !
prashantacmet
New member
- Munda's are ST in present day "Jharkhand"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjun_Munda Ex CM of Jharkhand , arjun munda , a tribal leader
- we have mauryas in east UP and bihar and lies under backward class..(koiri, maurya, kushwaha)
http://www.peoplegroupsindia.com/profiles/koeri/
http://pages.rediff.com/maurya-caste/1724821
recently kushwaha of Bihar claimed ashoka of their tribe
wondering if they had any royal connection in past of maghada...?
I think it's not better to link anyone with jats merely on the basis of similar names..we need at least one extra evidence.........
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjun_Munda Ex CM of Jharkhand , arjun munda , a tribal leader
- we have mauryas in east UP and bihar and lies under backward class..(koiri, maurya, kushwaha)
http://www.peoplegroupsindia.com/profiles/koeri/
http://pages.rediff.com/maurya-caste/1724821
recently kushwaha of Bihar claimed ashoka of their tribe
wondering if they had any royal connection in past of maghada...?
I think it's not better to link anyone with jats merely on the basis of similar names..we need at least one extra evidence.........
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drssrana2003
New member
kanyopayana (kanyaa+upaayana) i.e. offering daughters in marriage was one of the terms of the settlement between Samudragupta and the tribes including the Murundas. It means that matrimonial relation between the Guptas and the Murundas etc would be a common thing now, which was not the case earlier.
drrajpalsingh
New member
kanyopayana (kanyaa+upaayana) i.e. offering daughters in marriage was one of the terms of the settlement between Samudragupta and the tribes including the Murundas. It means that matrimonial relation between the Guptas and the Murundas etc would be a common thing now, which was not the case earlier.
Thank you Doctor Sahib.
drssrana2003
New member
Dr. Sahib, what is the real syntax in the matter under reference !
The text quoted by Laxman Ji in his earlier post was from Mahavansha. The term there in was jata (with soft T). This term comes from the Sanskrit root 'jani' meaning to be born. vansha-jaata means born in the family, Khattiyanam=kshatriyaanaam' meaning 'of the Kshatriyas'. So the full expression means 'Chandragupta born in
the family of the Kshatriya Mauryas. Importing here the term Jaat with hard 't' is uncalled for.
drssrana2003
New member
Prashant Ji hits the right cord. One has to control the temptation to discover 'JAAt' at the unlikeliest of places merely on the basis of some small similarity of sound. Unless other compelling evidence is around we must not hasten to conclude. We have had enough of writers of unestablished credentials thriving amongst us simply on the steam of caste patriotism.
We are in a continuous process of search. This is an advantage of WIKI. Members are requested to provide evidences here instead of asking. In the past the ruling clans could be traced from Afghanistan to the remotest eastern India. The Magadha Ruler Mauryas had gone from North so we can not rule out common factors between the present geographical distribution and the past geography of Jats. Let us not follow Wikipedia as it is continuously deleting Jat content from it as our members are not taking much interest in expanding content on Wikipedia. Regarding common factors in Rajasthan and eastern India I again quote RC Majumdar -
"The Copper Age civilisation in eastern India had links with similar civilisation of central India and Rajasthan".(Majumdar, R.C., History of Ancient Bengal, 2005 edition, pp. 20-22)
Bhim Singh Dahiya has mentioned about the rule of Munda people in Magadha. The inscriptional evidences show that Jat rulers and tribes in north India from Kabul to Cuttack, in the period following the disintegration of Kushanas empire. Particularly Magadha area was under the rule of people who had the title, Murunda. They are admitted to be Sakas or Scythians (=Jats). [Bhim Singh Dahiya, Jats The Ancient Rulers, p.188]
These Murunda rulers of Patliputra had special relations with Peshawar. It was but natural, for, after all Murundas and Kushanas both belonged to the same Scithian stock (=Jats). [Bhim Singh Dahiya, Jats The Ancient Rulers, p.189]
Mundas belong to the hill men of the north, who are spread over the Himalayan and Vindhyan mountains from the Indus to the Bay of Bengal. (Sir Alexander Cunningham:The Ancient Geography of India,p.506)
"The Copper Age civilisation in eastern India had links with similar civilisation of central India and Rajasthan".(Majumdar, R.C., History of Ancient Bengal, 2005 edition, pp. 20-22)
Bhim Singh Dahiya has mentioned about the rule of Munda people in Magadha. The inscriptional evidences show that Jat rulers and tribes in north India from Kabul to Cuttack, in the period following the disintegration of Kushanas empire. Particularly Magadha area was under the rule of people who had the title, Murunda. They are admitted to be Sakas or Scythians (=Jats). [Bhim Singh Dahiya, Jats The Ancient Rulers, p.188]
These Murunda rulers of Patliputra had special relations with Peshawar. It was but natural, for, after all Murundas and Kushanas both belonged to the same Scithian stock (=Jats). [Bhim Singh Dahiya, Jats The Ancient Rulers, p.189]
Mundas belong to the hill men of the north, who are spread over the Himalayan and Vindhyan mountains from the Indus to the Bay of Bengal. (Sir Alexander Cunningham:The Ancient Geography of India,p.506)
History of Basoli clan
We have in our list of Jat clans - Basoli
But we do not have any other information regarding its history or distribution. Dalip Singh Ahlawat writes that this gotra of Jats is in Uttar Pradesh.We know Basoli (बसोली) is a village in Baraut tahsil in Bagpat district in Uttar Pradesh. May be Jats of this clan live there. Members may add information.
While scanning the list of all the Rivers of Pakistan I found one River called Basol River in Pakistan. I think Basol may be the origin of clan. Basol River flows in Gwadar District of Balochistan Province, in southwestern Pakistan, drains a desert area of the Makran region.
The Basol River has been mentioned in Alexander's march as regards to Logistics of the Macedonian Army. Donald W. Engels mentions that another severe difficulty encountered by the troops was the lack of water along their route, which was fatal to a great many.[SUP][1][/SUP] Now if they followed Strasburger's suggested route up the Basol and Ketch Rivers, the only thing the army be able to procure was water. There is no permanent settlement ancient or modern, along the rocky narrow gorges of the Basol River and hence no grain or dates would be procurable.... [SUP][2]
References - [/SUP]
1. Arrian Anabasis Book/6b, Ch.6.24
2. Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army By Donald W. Engels
[/SUP]
We have in our list of Jat clans - Basoli
But we do not have any other information regarding its history or distribution. Dalip Singh Ahlawat writes that this gotra of Jats is in Uttar Pradesh.We know Basoli (बसोली) is a village in Baraut tahsil in Bagpat district in Uttar Pradesh. May be Jats of this clan live there. Members may add information.
While scanning the list of all the Rivers of Pakistan I found one River called Basol River in Pakistan. I think Basol may be the origin of clan. Basol River flows in Gwadar District of Balochistan Province, in southwestern Pakistan, drains a desert area of the Makran region.
The Basol River has been mentioned in Alexander's march as regards to Logistics of the Macedonian Army. Donald W. Engels mentions that another severe difficulty encountered by the troops was the lack of water along their route, which was fatal to a great many.[SUP][1][/SUP] Now if they followed Strasburger's suggested route up the Basol and Ketch Rivers, the only thing the army be able to procure was water. There is no permanent settlement ancient or modern, along the rocky narrow gorges of the Basol River and hence no grain or dates would be procurable.... [SUP][2]
References - [/SUP]
1. Arrian Anabasis Book/6b, Ch.6.24
2. Alexander the Great and the Logistics of the Macedonian Army By Donald W. Engels
[/SUP]
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Origin of Dorwal clan
Dorwal is gotra of Jats in Rajasthan and Haryana. Dorwal is gotra also found in Sikhs and Muslims.
Origin
According to Jat historians It is believed that they used to keep cattle in the past and so known as dorwal after word Dhor means cattle.
I think this origin is not correct as most of Jats keep animals.
Alexander Cunningham( The Ancient Geography of India,p.131) mentions two states Dhantawar and Gandgarh on Dor River in Hill states of Punjab in 7th century. These people may get name after the Dor River.
The Dori River begins north of the city of Quetta. It is called Lora in its headwaters in Pakistan. The name changes to Kadanai upon its entry into Afghanistan, and the name Dori is given below the town of Spin Baldak.
In Afghanistan, Dori first runs westward and soon faces the sandy desert of Rigestan. It then takes a northerly direction and along the desert passes east and northeast past Takht-e Pol, bordering southeast of the Kandahar Valley. Shortly after, it receives the Arghastan River and then the Tarnak River, both on the left bank, some thirty kilometers south of the city of Kandahar.
It may also probably have originated from Dwarapala tribe (द्वारपाल) of Mahabharata.
Dorwal is gotra of Jats in Rajasthan and Haryana. Dorwal is gotra also found in Sikhs and Muslims.
Origin
According to Jat historians It is believed that they used to keep cattle in the past and so known as dorwal after word Dhor means cattle.
I think this origin is not correct as most of Jats keep animals.
Alexander Cunningham( The Ancient Geography of India,p.131) mentions two states Dhantawar and Gandgarh on Dor River in Hill states of Punjab in 7th century. These people may get name after the Dor River.
The Dori River begins north of the city of Quetta. It is called Lora in its headwaters in Pakistan. The name changes to Kadanai upon its entry into Afghanistan, and the name Dori is given below the town of Spin Baldak.
In Afghanistan, Dori first runs westward and soon faces the sandy desert of Rigestan. It then takes a northerly direction and along the desert passes east and northeast past Takht-e Pol, bordering southeast of the Kandahar Valley. Shortly after, it receives the Arghastan River and then the Tarnak River, both on the left bank, some thirty kilometers south of the city of Kandahar.
It may also probably have originated from Dwarapala tribe (द्वारपाल) of Mahabharata.
drssrana2003
New member
Laxman Ji,
You have undertaken a tough job, indeed. Tracing gotra names is a task full of challenges- of remoteness of time, changes in language, apparent similarities of sound with no real relationship in meaning , even sounds having undergone changes beyond recognition. This Yaska summarises in one sentence, namely , 'Vishayavatyo hi vrittayah bhavanti' i.e. word forms are very complex.
But never the less Yaska is a great votary of the Science of etymology. He thinks it is always worth while to attempt etymologies of words as long as you do not loose track of the core meaning. And never give up on yourmission.So good luck and best wishes. But please ponder and look back sometimes to consolidate.
You have undertaken a tough job, indeed. Tracing gotra names is a task full of challenges- of remoteness of time, changes in language, apparent similarities of sound with no real relationship in meaning , even sounds having undergone changes beyond recognition. This Yaska summarises in one sentence, namely , 'Vishayavatyo hi vrittayah bhavanti' i.e. word forms are very complex.
But never the less Yaska is a great votary of the Science of etymology. He thinks it is always worth while to attempt etymologies of words as long as you do not loose track of the core meaning. And never give up on yourmission.So good luck and best wishes. But please ponder and look back sometimes to consolidate.
Hello, I am a new member. I have read mostly on wiki or on jatland about Jaat's origin. Some sources say that Jaats were not part part of main stream political life untill Mughals era. At some places, I have seen people co-relating it with Shiv Ji's Hair and some talk about Indo-Sythiyan origin. Which one is correct?
A response with reference material is requested.
A response with reference material is requested.
drssrana2003
New member
Hello, I am a new member. I have read mostly on wiki or on jatland about Jaat's origin. Some sources say that Jaats were not part part of main stream political life untill Mughals era. At some places, I have seen people co-relating it with Shiv Ji's Hair and some talk about Indo-Sythiyan origin. Which one is correct?
A response with reference material is requested.
We are barking the wrong tree in trying to trace the oribin of the term Jat in mythological literature. Can there be life from the tuft of hair?
If we do not find the term Jat in ancient Indian sources we need not invent the sources. We should think out of the box. Could there be no altwrnative names(labels ) for the same people used for them. We have abundant mention of our ancient clan names. We must reconcile the two;
You can refer my book 'Jat: The Label and the People' published by Originals' recently
to find answers to some of the questions.
drrajpalsingh
New member
We are barking the wrong tree in trying to trace the oribin of the term Jat in mythological literature. Can there be life from the tuft of hair?
If we do not find the term Jat in ancient Indian sources we need not invent the sources. We should think out of the box. Could there be no altwrnative names(labels ) for the same people used for them. We have abundant mention of our ancient clan names. We must reconcile the two;
You can refer my book 'Jat: The Label and the People' published by Originals' recently
to find answers to some of the questions.
Dr.Sahib
It would be your kindness if you could share some relevant extracts from your book here to enable members to know what newer light your valuable research has thrown on the topic under reference.
Regards
drrajpalsingh
New member
Hello, I am a new member. I have read mostly on wiki or on jatland about Jaat's origin. Some sources say that Jaats were not part part of main stream political life untill Mughals era. At some places, I have seen people co-relating it with Shiv Ji's Hair and some talk about Indo-Sythiyan origin. Which one is correct?
A response with reference material is requested.
Good question raised.
The reconstruction of Jat history has been going on process started in early years of 20th Century as a separate special field of research.
Wiki pages contain all the points of view as well as some critical assessment done by eminent historians.
No unanimously acceptable final word has emerged on the origin of the word and efforts are going apace !
Hello, I am a new member. I have read mostly on wiki or on jatland about Jaat's origin. Some sources say that Jaats were not part part of main stream political life untill Mughals era. At some places, I have seen people co-relating it with Shiv Ji's Hair and some talk about Indo-Sythiyan origin. Which one is correct?
A response with reference material is requested.
Rahul Ji welcome on Jatland ! It is your first post. Congratulations!! Our search for the origin of word Jat is going on. It is like search for God ! So far we are not sure about exact origin. Let us keep our research going on !!!
Thanks Laxman Ji/ Dr Rajpal/ Dr Rana for responses
However, I am interested in traits and physical features of the people. We might have been in history with different name. I have seen sites of Rajput/Ahirs/Gujjars as well. They share a lot of surnames with us. How do we differentiate ourselves from them ?
On some occasions, we try to find our roots in Aryans Invasion Theory. I have read somewhere that AIT was created by British just to create rift b/w people of India so that we may not unite. please comment on that as well.
However, I am interested in traits and physical features of the people. We might have been in history with different name. I have seen sites of Rajput/Ahirs/Gujjars as well. They share a lot of surnames with us. How do we differentiate ourselves from them ?
On some occasions, we try to find our roots in Aryans Invasion Theory. I have read somewhere that AIT was created by British just to create rift b/w people of India so that we may not unite. please comment on that as well.
drrajpalsingh
New member
Most of the active members are very senior and youth is not very active. Are we not connected to young generation of us properly?
In recent past humanities including history has suffered as not favourable subject in comparison to computer/engineering and other professional courses. Nonetheless, many a young scholars in different universities are taking interest in study of history.
drssrana2003
New member
Rahul Ji welcome on Jatland ! It is your first post. Congratulations!! Our search for the origin of word Jat is going on. It is like search for God ! So far we are not sure about exact origin. Let us keep our research going on !!!
I. Common surnames:
This shows that these communities have common ancestry. Their current labels are later innovations to serve the purpose of showing differentiation. Let us inquire into the circumstances and reasons for this differentiation along with the estimated time time line .
drssrana2003
New member
II. Aryan Invasion Theory:
I would not go as far as to imagine a conspiracy. But certainly we can talk of predilections of the
British and other like thinking writers. Cunningham had a fixed view on the Central Asian origin of the
Aryans which was largely reflecting the British interests in the 'Great Game' being played during the
nineteenth century and continues to be played with the reshuffling of the major players, with America replacing the role of the major in place of Britain. Iknow of no clear evidence of the so called AIT.
I would not go as far as to imagine a conspiracy. But certainly we can talk of predilections of the
British and other like thinking writers. Cunningham had a fixed view on the Central Asian origin of the
Aryans which was largely reflecting the British interests in the 'Great Game' being played during the
nineteenth century and continues to be played with the reshuffling of the major players, with America replacing the role of the major in place of Britain. Iknow of no clear evidence of the so called AIT.