Army chief Gen. VK Singh DOB dispute

I tried that path but i couldnt find the answer. Looks like people are more interested in fighting rather than discussing the real issue.

Anyway what I could trace back from some newspaper is that : His had correct date in his school certificate (12th).

That may not be his correct date but what i know is that time and still a school certificate birth date (matric) was considered enough proof as we didnt have birth certificate/birth records.

Somehow someone put his wrong DOB in one of the army form. My question is why he didnt pick this up till now? I am sure he must have known this. Was he careless or he really didnt know?

Hard to believe thought that he didnt know. The age issue should have been much earlier by him.
 
He did know it and very early in his career. His Colonel father wrote it to the army. If you watch the videos you will find reference to this claim. The official record keeper of the army, the adjutant office has his DOB as May 10, 1951.

I have raised few questions about the same issue that why this is being made big only? Why the ministry and govt. did not do anything earlier?
 
Vipin bhai the discripency was picked up and corrected even before he was formaly commissioned!
Actully the mistake happened when his dad filled the UPSC form. Otherwise, His Birth ceritificate form Army Hospital Pune and His Matirc ceritificate have his year of birth as 1951.
Same was carried on till now by the Adjutant General, The main actual and main record keeperof the Army and was no problem untill he was promoted as Maj.General. Actual problem arose at the time of his promotion to the rank of Lt. General when he was forced to give an undertaking to accept year 1950 and again he was forced to give an undertaking when he was to be promoted as Chief of the army staff. Somehow beaurocrats in MOD got a clue about the discripancy and manuplated the process that forced the General to retire on 31 May, 2012. This was done to benifit Lt. General Bikram Singh. In case the General retires next May than Lt.General Bikram Singh wouldn't get a chance to the top post.

Age row time line:


Army's Adjutant General branch records DoB as May 10, 1951, but Military Secretary's branch records it as May 10, 1950

2002: Gen Singh demands the differing records be reconciled

2006: Gen Singh is promoted to Lt-Gen rank, says he was forced to give an undertaking accepting 1950 as the year of birth

2008: When he is promoted as Army Commander, he gives an undertaking again to maintain 1950 as his year of birth, but Gen Singh's supporters say it was extracted under coercion

Early 2010: Just before his appointment as the chief in April, Gen Singh writes to then Army chief and defence secy, saying the issue was a closed chapter

October 2010: An RTI application is filed by an IAS officer seeking Army chief's birth date. It is referred to legal adviser to MoD, who says the chief was born in 1951

May 6, 2011: MoD objects to being bypassed in seeking legal opinion and Army HQs efforts to correct records

May 2011: Army chief petitions MoD on the issue, demands 'reconciliation' of his DoB

July 2011: MOD rejects the demand, based on Attorney General's opinion

August 2011: Gen Singh files a statutory complaint with defence minister AK Antony

December 2011: MoD rejects the statutory complaint, based on Attorney General's opinion

January 16, 2012: Gen Singh moves SC
 
Some of the friends have already contested and may do so now as well that why did he give the undertaking at the first place itself. I am of the opinion that if he had disagreed and didn't give an undertaking, his promotion to the Rank of LT. GEneral would have been in doubt or had to go to court. I believe, if he had gone to court and won the case, wouldn't have got promotion as Army Chief. It is a post that political masters decide. So he had no option but to waite until this situation. He has done the right thing that needed great patience and resiliency.
 
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Thank you, you answered all the questions. Now the only question is how he is going to answer this in the court. Even though I might have done the same thing but on the high standard of ethics it looks like a deal: I undertake something otherwise I will lose promotion. The below line if true looks more like a compromise or even a deal. Surely court gonna question him over this. Question may arise was he forced or was given an option : Accept this and get this !


2006: Gen Singh is promoted to Lt-Gen rank, says he was forced to give an undertaking accepting 1950 as the year of birth
 
Thank you, you answered all the questions. Now the only question is how he is going to answer this in the court. Even though I might have done the same thing but on the high standard of ethics it looks like a deal: I undertake something otherwise I will lose promotion. The below line if true looks more like a compromise or even a deal. Surely court gonna question him over this. Question may arise was he forced or was given an option : Accept this and get this !


2006: Gen Singh is promoted to Lt-Gen rank, says he was forced to give an undertaking accepting 1950 as the year of birth

Even it will be more difficult for the Govt to answer this question of deal, how Govt can have such ellegal deals, he can still say he was getting permotion but how will Govt justify its role in the deal
 
kapil Dalal
I guess you are not getting the point here.............there is a pattern by Gov't in selection process of Gen Officer's of Army. It has reached its nadir with current crisis. This govt and this leadership breeds crisis where there is none, trivial matter like this could have been nipped in the bud before it stared you in face. Sadly that's not the forte here. What you are calling mumbo jumbo is lack on your part about anything that relates to service and the understanding there of...
Here is the link to find all articles on Gen VK Singh's DOB issue.......There are 277 articles here...

http://news.google.com/news/more?cf=all&ned=in&ncl=diNdTef2AOGMezMQP_KUUekX9GSWM&topic=h

I don't expect response from you...it will tantamount to admitting you were misinformed and stand corrected.

Mr Karan, "stand corrected" about what? You keep shifting the goalposts! Don't attribute imaginary arguments to me! Come back, please, to the first post that I objected against. Can't you see what's bolded and underlined?

Gov't and this fu'ked up nation wants to hold their military at highest possible ethical standard, asking them to lay down their lives for millions of scum bags who don't even deserve to live or breath extra second of their miserable life and the same people and their elected representatives are trying to humiliate a COAS, don't they know the severity of this situation.

What you are saying in post #113 and in post #112 is not a rebuttal to me - I have argued broadly on the same lines in my other posts. I am glad you have toned down your rhetoric and finally made some sensible comments. More power to you!

PS: if you continue to persist arguing against imaginary arguments, I am not going to respond further.
 
This fu'ked up nation wants to hold their military at highest possible ethical standard, asking them to lay down their lives for millions of scum bags who don't even deserve to live or breath extra second of their miserable life and the same people and their elected representatives are trying to humiliate a COAS
All because of two men one is god forsaken Lungi Dhaari Antony and second is **** for Brains wrapped in Toilet Paper--Manmohan Singh.They thought he will just buckle under false pretenses of "Desh Bhakti" "Tradition" "Fauji Bhai" civilian authority is supreme, lure him with Governor's post or foreign Ambassador's post they didn't count on the fact that he will fight back. 2nd is Rumor has it, Lt. Gen Bikram Singh is related to Manmohan Singh. It hasn't been clearly established now-- but the rumor is doing rounds--if it is true then India is the worst f**king nation on the face of this planet-I have more respect for Pakistan and china


You are a frustrated middle aged idiot. Kapil had rightly objected to your post. Do you know what you are talking about? On face value, I think you are a loser.

You are insulting a whole nation, a religion and even your own heritage.
 
As per latest news:

Grenadiers assn PIL on Army chief rejected by apex court​
: The Supreme Court has dismissed a PIL filed by the Grenadiers Association (Rohtak chapter), seeking a direction to the government to declare May 10, 1951, as the date of birth of Army chief Gen VK Singh instead of May 10, 1950.

A three-judge bench of the Supreme Court headed by Chief Justice SH Kapadia, today expressed displeasure over annexing the opinion of former chief justices in the petition on the issue, and said it is not expressing any opinion on the merits of the case. It is purely a service matter and entertaining a PIL will set a wrong precedent and create chaos, the bench added
 
.

Interesting yet eye-opening article about so called "Honest" Defence Minister Antony -

Does honesty have to mean incompetence or impotence?

Less well known is the case of AK Antony, the “honest” defence minister of the country. Antony has made personal honesty his watchword – but few believe that his honesty comes with any kind of competence. He was thrice made chief minister of Kerala – but ended up without any achievements to boot in each case. His political incompetence trumped his honesty.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/antony-vs-army-chief-when-honesty-is-not-good-enough-170699.html

 
dusra manmohan singh...!!!

.

Interesting yet eye-opening article about so called "Honest" Defence Minister Antony -

Does honesty have to mean incompetence or impotence?

Less well known is the case of AK Antony, the “honest” defence minister of the country. Antony has made personal honesty his watchword – but few believe that his honesty comes with any kind of competence. He was thrice made chief minister of Kerala – but ended up without any achievements to boot in each case. His political incompetence trumped his honesty.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/antony-vs-army-chief-when-honesty-is-not-good-enough-170699.html

 
Personal matter or conspiracy?

A very good analysis by RSN Singh, a former military intelligence officer. Link: http://www.sify.com/news/army-chief...ws-columns-mb4pICbajbj.html?scategory=columns

Reproducing it here.

The controversy over the army chief's date of birth (D.O.B.) is bizarre and probably symptomatic of the degradation of value systems at the higher echelons of the army. It is definitely not a sudden development.

Officers of the rank of lieutenant general have gone to the civil courts on matters relating to promotions in the past. The only institution which had no need to do so was that of the army chief, because that was the end of the hierarchy and the ladder. But then there was the allure of post-retirement sinecure and many army chiefs were perceived to be bending backwards for it.

Eventually, by a seemingly capillary action, the malaise crept right to the top. The system had acquired such a culture of sleaze and conspiracy over the years that there was an attempt to even manipulate the duration and succession chain of the institution.

Gen VK Singh's decision to go to the Supreme Court is a manifestation of this. The case otherwise was so simple – or such a non-issue- that its resolution was more a matter of common sense than judicial intervention.

The case arose from a difference in the records of the Military Secretary's Branch and the Adjutant General's (AG's) Branch of the army. The latter is the usual record-keeper.

In Gen Singh's case, the ministry of defence decided that it will go by the Military Secretary's records – when common sense should have told it to do otherwise. In fact, the MoD has done so in at least one earlier case.

In a strikingly similar case, one Col Ramesh Chander Joshi (IC-16142) received his orders for retirement from the MS Branch (vide Letter No. 30004/Sep 96/Tech/MS Retirement w.e.f. 30 September 1996) based on the fact that his date of birth was listed as 22 September 1944.

However, the records with the Adjutant General's branch clearly indicated his date of birth as 25 November 1945. The officer communicated this anomaly to the MS Branch. In the absence of reply, on the last day of his retirement, i.e. 30 September 1996, the officer had no option but to send a signal directly to the army chief.

Promptly, on the same day, the officer received a message "This HQ letter No 30004/Sep/96/Tech/MS Retirement of 13 Sep 1996 regarding retirement of IC 16142 Col Ramesh Chander Joshi Engrs of E-in-c's Branch Army Hq w.e.f. from 30 Sep 96 is hereby cancelled. The claimed date of birth as 25 Nov 45 has been accepted by ministry of defence (MoD). Officer will continue in service till further orders."

As in the case of Gen Singh, the date of birth column in the UPSC form in respect of Col Joshi had been incorrectly filled and was corrected by the UPSC first and subsequently by the National Defence Academy (NDA) once his Senior Cambridge certificate arrived.

Col Joshi wonders: "If it has happened in my case why not in the case of Gen VK Singh?"

Most army officers are bewildered and question: where is the scope for controversy?

Various military secretaries who had dealt with the case, in keeping with their moral imperative, could have ‘corrected' their records within a matter of hours.

There are scores of such cases in the Army List, wherein the date of birth, or IC number or name is wrongly entered. People have retired as lieutenant generals with wrong IC numbers in the Army List. If these military secretaries were 'men of honour' they should have accepted their 'omissions' and tried to clean up the functioning of the MS Branch.

Some 90 percent officers in the army retire without seeing the Army List. There is a popular saying in the army that only crooks and careerists see the Army List.

But what does one make of Gen Singh's alleged acceptance of his date of birth – an acceptance demanded by the MS Branch before he was made a corps commander?

Gen Singh's detractors are clutching the straw of 'acceptance' in their defence. An 'acceptance' of a date of birth cannot get one a driving licence or passport, let alone make an 'army chief'. An ‘acceptance' cannot be construed as 'self-declaration'. Any 'acceptance' cannot be in the absence of a 'demand' and, in Gen Singh's case, it was looked like intimidation or blackmail, which clearly indicates that the higher echelons are bereft of common decencies.

No civilised officer will use the kind of language that the concerned military secretaries used with an officer who was to be appointed the next army chief. Imagine the agony of the lower rung! Sample the non-civilised import of language used by the MS in respect of Gen Singh.

In a letter dated 21 June 2008, the military secretary wrote to Gen Singh, "we are constrained to maintain your official date of birth as 10 May 1950, and same may kindly be reflected in all your records and documents. The AG's branch is accordingly intimated to amend the records being maintained by them." (Note: this is nothing but megalomania, as the MS Branch has no authority over the AG's Branch in matters of personal particulars of an officer; in fact it is otherwise).

In another letter dated 21 January 2008, the MS said: "… we are constrained to maintain your official date of birth as 10 May 1950, and the same may kindly be reflected in all your records… Please acknowledge and confirm acceptance."

Then comes the threat. "Request fwd (forward) ack (acknowledgement) and confirm acceptance of date of birth as given in para 5 (five) of letter dated 21 January 2008… (.) If reply not received by 1000 hrs on 25 Jan 08 action deemed appropriate will be taken (.) (from MS to Gen Singh dated 24 Jan 2008).

No man of honour will digest such intimidation and blackmail. It is very much honourable to deal with dishonourable men and their vicious agendas from a position of relative advantage. This is exactly what the general has done. He has moved incrementally by first appealing to the good and moral sense of the powers that be. It is in this spirit that the legal opinion of four former and honourable Chief Justices of India was solicited.

A guilty man will not do that. A man with a chink in his armour will not go to the Supreme Court of India. Only an honourable man at the end of his career will put everything on the line. Those who, therefore, are insinuating that the general has taken this drastic step for an additional 10 months in office have simply lost their moral bearings. It took almost four months (more than the mandatory period) for the defence minister to give his verdict on the statutory complaint filed by his army chief.

If the defence minister takes four months to adjudicate on a statutory complaint of his army chief, one can imagine the plight of a jawan of the Indian army. Then there was planted propaganda that the general may tender his resignation, thus upsetting the ‘succession plan'. Some bureaucrats this author interacted with pompously boasted that the general would not even be allowed to resign, as he serves at the pleasure of the President.

Meanwhile, owing to the role played by certain responsible and patriotic segments of the media, the truth gained currency and the government realised that it was morally and legally very vulnerable. One of the senior ministers admitted in private that the issue was botched up and could have serious political repercussions.

Some ministers expressed their helplessness in deference to the fiat of a caucus of extra-constitutional authorities. It is the same story: all conspiracies and scams in recent times smack of a major influence of this extra-constitutional caucus.

The government initially resorted to threats. When that did not work, it sent various emissaries with allurements of post-retirement sinecures. When that was not bought, it sent mediators for a compromise. The moot question is compromise on what?

Concomitantly, there was an orchestrated media campaign to dissuade Gen Singh from going to court and make him resign. Now, a scare is being raised that the honourable Supreme Court will question the maintainability of his petition and ask Gen Singh to go to the Armed Forces Tribunal. In fact, for some reason, there is a feverish attempt to create an atmosphere in favour of the Armed Forces Tribunal route.

It is obvious that the issue about the date of birth of Gen Singh is not personal, but has reached this point by systemic influences. These internal and external influences need to be investigated. A conspiracy that seems designed to subvert the Indian army needs to be unravelled.


There are insinuations that politics, political funding, the arms lobby, business mafia and international players are impinging on the course of the crisis. It is quite evident from the bizarre, unprecedented term called 'succession plan' that has been given currency by the current dispensation.

Will someone please stand up to sort out this mess so that our army can serve our polity better?
 
फौज किसी भी देश का सबसे ताकतवर विभाग होता हे ,और अमूमन फौज से कोई पंगा नहीं लेता | भारत में फौज को निक्रस्ट द्रष्टि से देखा जाता हे | जब हथियार खरीदने होते हैं तब भी और पे कमिसन आता ह तब भी उन् की बिलकुल भी नहीं सुनी जाती | उनकी नकारात्मक रिपोर्ट को भी अनदेखा कर के विदेशों से नहीं चलने वाले हथियार या २५-तीस साल पुराणी तकनीक के इक्विपमेंट खरीद कर दे दिए जाते हैं | और फौज चुप-चाप इन् सब चीजों को भुगतती रहती हे | क्या ऐसा नहीं लगता की फौज की ऐसी बुरी हालत के लिए फौज खुद जिम्मेदार हे | दो टके के नेता जो जीवन भर जेल में सड़ने चाहिए ,इन् को उन्गलिओं पर नचाते हैं | ६२ की चीन की लड़ाई में नेहरु खुद फेसला ले रहा था की कोनसी रेजिमेंट कब कहाँ पर लड़ेगीऔर कब पीछे हटेगी , एक ऐसा इंसान जिसे दारु और औरत के सिवाय किसी चीज का ज्ञान नहीं था वो यूद्ध के फेसले ले रहा था | तो पहले फौजी जनरल ने ही फौज का दिग्रेड़ेसन करवाना शुरू कर दिया था | आज भी एक खुद्दार जनरल के लिए ये ही ठीक हे की इस तरह की सरकार के जितने भी मंत्री -संत्री हैं ,और एक्स्ट्रा कन्स्तितुसनल अथोर्ती हैं ,रास्ट्रपति समेत ,एक पहाड़ (तिहाड़ की तरह ही दूसरी और भी भयंकर ) जेल में डाल कर उन् पर देशद्रोह और अराजकता फेलाने के आरोप में मुकदमा चालाना चाहिए | क्या हे किसी जनरल में इतनी हिम्मत ,अगले सो साल तक उसकी पूजा होगी इस देश में |
 
NEW DELHI: Laying the blame on the Army's doors for the controversy over Gen V K Singh's age issue, defence minister A K Antony on Tuesday said it occured because the force kept two sets of his date of birth for 36 years and maintained there was no civil-military confrontation.
"For 36 years, two branches of the same institution maintained two dates of birth and that is why this controversy," he told reporters here in his first detailed comments on the raging controversy that is before the Supreme Court now.
"It is unfortunate that it took years together but I don't agree with some of you that it is a civil-military controversy," Antony added.
He suggested that the government had no role to play in the whole issue as this discrepancy was first noticed in 2006 by the Army headquarters and reconciled at that level then and later in 2008 by two respective chiefs.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...y-for-chiefs-age-row/articleshow/11697108.cms
 
The apex court asks several questions to the govt. and also asks the ministry to take the order back of rejecting Gen. Singh's statutory complaint or the court will quash it. Court also comments on administrative defects in decision making process in the ministry, decision of rejecting the statutory complaint was vitiated and fundamentally flawed.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/supreme-court-asks-govt-to-explain-stand-on-army-chiefs-age-172861

So, this time the govt. making the attorney general a scapegoat as it appears that the govt. will put all the blame on the AG.

This govt. has lost the moral grounds to be in power.

Next hearing is on Feb 10.
 
13:45 SC to Army Chief: Accept 1950 as your date of birth:
Just in: The Supreme Court tells Army Chief VK Singh to withdraw his plea or face contempt of court.
The SC says the 1950 date of birth in the UPSC records is to be used for service issues as it is not 'grossly erroneous'. The SC also said it was not in favour of entertaining Gen Singh's petition, gives him option to withdraw it.
13:49 Govt is not against you, SC tells VK Singh:
The Supreme Court also told the army chief that the most relevant document for the date of birth is the UPSC record, which says 1950. The apex court also told Gen Singh that the government was not prejudiced against him.
Attorney General GE Vahanvaty said that "Even though we are resisting a PIL filed by him (the Army Chief), we are not against him."
13:53 No prejudice was done to Gen Singh: SC:
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh declines to comment on the age controversy of the Army Chief, saying that the matter is before the court.
In brief, here's what the Supreme Court said:
No prejudice was done to Gen Singh. Government has full faith in him. Gen Singh has to abide by his commitment and honour his letters of 2008 and 2009 accepting the date of birth as May 10, 1950. Looking into constraint of judicial review, the decision of government on his date of birth will continue to be there. Singh's writ petition was not for determination of date of birth but for recognition of date of birth in official records.
13:58
In other words, in the Union of India vs Army Chief VK Singh, the government emerges the winner. As expected.
This means the General will retire on May 31. If 1951 had been considered as his DoB, he would have got a 10-month extension.
 
As expected the Army Chief has withdrawn the case against government and claimed that the issue has been sorted out amicably.
 
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