Army chief Gen. VK Singh DOB dispute

kapdal said:
Let me try to convince you a bit more....:)

This is what she said, "Gen.Singh,sir, nasty things happen when Generals collide with elected govts. You are already Chief, is that not honour enough?"

What collision is she talking about? No one has taken out guns or even hinted remotely to it. What nasty things can happen? The nastiest thing so far is this comment on twitter that she has subjected us to. She is just sensationalising the issue by making disingenous hints to the conditions in the neigbouring country.

And "is that not honour enough" is an outright rubbish argument. Has she ever asked:

1. An industrialist: " Why do you want more profit? You are already worth XYZ billions, is that not rich enough?"

2. A politician: "Why do you want a higher post? You are already on XYZ position. Is that not high enough"

3. Sachin Tendulkar: "Why do you want another century? You already have so many, is that not enough"

4. Herself: "Why do you want to be the editor? You already are an accomplished journalist, is the torture that readers/viewers have gone through not enough?"

I will grant her some honesty in thought process, if she asks any of the above questions, especially 4th one.
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That is what I call a healthy debate. Great, Kapil!! Hats off to your debating skills. Now you have compelled me to change my heart and opinion about this beautiful journalist.
 
vpsingh said:
That is what I call a healthy debate. Great, Kapil!! Hats off to your debating skills. Now you have compelled me to change my heart and opinion about this beautiful journalist.
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Now you are there, you accepted all whatever she tweet because she is beautiful.
 
एक लुगाई (रुस्सी )के कारण ते एक कमोडोर ने एक पुराणा बेकार रुस्सी विमान वाहक पोत खरीद लिया था | उह में इतने पिस्से लाग लिए भारत के अक दो नए जहाज आ जांदे | अर दस साल ते वो रूस की एक डोक में समरण लाग्र्या स इब्ब ताहीं, अर वो कमोडोर आखिर में कोर्ट मार्शल कर के ने समारना पड्या | जिह माणस की कमजोरी लुगाई स ,वो माणस ख़तम | इस्से-इस्से माणस सोनिया अर प्रियंका की शकल देख के ने राजी होए रहया करें अर कांग्रेस की बोट गेर आया करें |
 
Gracefully retiement is not an escape route, Gen should retire with honor. what govt is providing to Gen Singh is just an escape route which is not acceptable to a soldier. Political people can take this bargain, but this cannot be taken by a true soldier, irrespective of its result.
 
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Jest a minute!!

After a brainstorming session, just have some light moments.
Someone wrote on Facebook (this time not a lady).

"In India Government Decides Age of the Army Chief, and in Pakistan, it is Army Chief who Decides age of the Government."
 
Read all the posts, all the facts, all the links, and video reports. I am making valid argument, this anathema was setup in motion when JJ Singh was made Army Chief. There was a case of Lt. Gen Kadyan and Lt. Gen Kalkat's promotion where IIRC DOB, Seniority was an issue, Gen Kadyan went to court and won.
The military exists for the nation. The nation doesn't exist for the military. The military deserves the nation's respect. But the nation doesn't deserve its military's contempt.
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This goes both ways. Nation does exist for military and it will get military's contempt. Do some more reading and get enlightened

You are correct 90% of army doesn't care, 100% of the military cares. If a chief can't be treated fairly by the very government that chose him to be COAS then who says a Jawan at siachen will be treated fairly......Oh Wait! they are not treated fairly at all. They have been asking for better gear and equipment for decades there is always some excuse from same Gov't but it is never short on funds for providing care for Sonia Gandhi? You lost your argument prowess again.
You seem to suggest somehow it is Gen Singh's problem that Army has stone age equipment? Its a separate Discussion.
 
VP Singh
All I have to say for your post is.....

Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.-Thomas Jefferson
​

vpsingh said:
I think, there can be no better reply to your post than the one given by Kapil and I fully endorse his opinion. May I now request you not to give a new twist to this matter by making it a fight between the "honour of military and the scum bags/bugs - the ordinary mortals of this fu'ked nation" (in your civilized parlance). And by the way it were you who took an initiative to give this matter a caste twist. Please go through your post pasted below:



Accusations of favoritism in defence department and thereby whipping up divisive tendencies in army by raising a bogey of religion and caste is very dangerous. Your esteemed friend (as quoted by you) is a past master in raising the bogey of caste. This site is full of such instances where, every third post is aghast with casteism. You seem to be conspicuously maintaining silence about that.


Going by your endorsement of your esteemed friend's suggestion about mutiny by Gen. Singh, you also seem to be in favour of a mutiny.
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karan said:
VP Singh
All I have to say for your post is.....

Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.-Thomas Jefferson
​
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Karan, instead of quoting Jefferson, you could have reacted in your own language.

Being cryptic is synonymous to timidity - Napolean Bonaparte.
 
General in Court:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-retire-with-dignity/articleshow/11540872.cms
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In his petition, he has stated that he wished to make it "abundantly clear at this stage" that regardless of the result of the petition or the controversy surrounding his age, the government "has the right to determine the tenure of his office of the Chief of the Army Staff".
Gen Singh stated that the government's action and conduct in refusing to accept his contention on his birth date was affecting his image before the general public and the armed forces. It was his right to have a "dignified life", he pleaded in the petition, adding that an army chief has "a right to retire with dignity".
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Am highlighting this to ensure that the logic deprived government sympathizers do not attribute "Love of Kursi" to the General's Court move.


A. Besides, Ashutosh of IBN7 has mentioned this :

"Gen.V K Singh age case is a curious case of arms lobby and corruption vs an honest officer. He should win to demoralise corrupts."

B. Also, 4 Ex-CJIs including Justice Verma, known for his honesty, have backed General.


The purpose to cite CJI & Journalists is to drive home the point that these people are privy to the "insider" information that is probably not available to any of us on this forum.​
 
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karan said:
Read all the posts, all the facts, all the links, and video reports. I am making valid argument, this anathema was setup in motion when JJ Singh was made Army Chief. There was a case of Lt. Gen Kadyan and Lt. Gen Kalkat's promotion where IIRC DOB, Seniority was an issue, Gen Kadyan went to court and won.

This goes both ways. Nation does exist for military and it will get military's contempt. Do some more reading and get enlightened

You are correct 90% of army doesn't care, 100% of the military cares. If a chief can't be treated fairly by the very government that chose him to be COAS then who says a Jawan at siachen will be treated fairly......Oh Wait! they are not treated fairly at all. They have been asking for better gear and equipment for decades there is always some excuse from same Gov't but it is never short on funds for providing care for Sonia Gandhi? You lost your argument prowess again.
You seem to suggest somehow it is Gen Singh's problem that Army has stone age equipment? Its a separate Discussion.
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I don't know what point you are making by dropping all sorts of names now. It seems akin to a child caught doing something naughty and then resorting to some mumbo-jumbo. You had countered a member's response saying there was no logic in it and responded with a line of argument that had a string of abuses for India and Indians (ironically, on a forum of Indians discussing an Indian issue) - I was questioning this (had higlighted it even earlier for your benefit).

Yeah, nations do exist for military - like in Pakistan where military plays a role in everything under the sun and even beyond it. Unfortunately, I don't and can't look up to that as a role model case. Nevertheless, please do suggest the additional reading. If it looks promising, I will have a look for my sake. (Though can't guarantee I am going to respond to you going by this response here.)
 
kapil Dalal
I guess you are not getting the point here.............there is a pattern by Gov't in selection process of Gen Officer's of Army. It has reached its nadir with current crisis. This govt and this leadership breeds crisis where there is none, trivial matter like this could have been nipped in the bud before it stared you in face. Sadly that's not the forte here. What you are calling mumbo jumbo is lack on your part about anything that relates to service and the understanding there of...
Here is the link to find all articles on Gen VK Singh's DOB issue.......There are 277 articles here...

http://news.google.com/news/more?cf=all&ned=in&ncl=diNdTef2AOGMezMQP_KUUekX9GSWM&topic=h

I don't expect response from you...it will tantamount to admitting you were misinformed and stand corrected.

kapdal said:
I don't know what point you are making by dropping all sorts of names now. It seems akin to a child caught doing something naughty and then resorting to some mumbo-jumbo. You had countered a member's response saying there was no logic in it and responded with a line of argument that had a string of abuses for India and Indians (ironically, on a forum of Indians discussing an Indian issue) - I was questioning this (had higlighted it even earlier for your benefit).

Yeah, nations do exist for military - like in Pakistan where military plays a role in everything under the sun and even beyond it. Unfortunately, I don't and can't look up to that as a role model case. Nevertheless, please do suggest the additional reading. If it looks promising, I will have a look for my sake. (Though can't guarantee I am going to respond to you going by this response here.)
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General is absolutely correct. Basically what he is saying is.....don't use some trivial matter to end his tenure, have some cajones and fire him, if Gov't of India wants someone else as COAS. I don't think anyone will have any issue with that...Gov't has the right to choose the military chief that they deem fit for the job.

vikasgulia said:
General in Court:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-retire-with-dignity/articleshow/11540872.cms
========================================================================================
In his petition, he has stated that he wished to make it "abundantly clear at this stage" that regardless of the result of the petition or the controversy surrounding his age, the government "has the right to determine the tenure of his office of the Chief of the Army Staff".
Gen Singh stated that the government's action and conduct in refusing to accept his contention on his birth date was affecting his image before the general public and the armed forces. It was his right to have a "dignified life", he pleaded in the petition, adding that an army chief has "a right to retire with dignity".
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Sure said:
Now you are there, you accepted all whatever she tweet because she is beautiful.
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No Surinder Ji, this was just to bring the tempers down that had crossed the danger level. ब्याह के सारे गीत सच नहीं होया करते I
But, it is true that woman is weakness of all human beings including Talibanis who have been found to be indulged in rapes and molestation, reportedly. It is different thing that they have to keep their dirty behaviour covered under the robes of morality for public consumption.

Now coming to the remark of Sagarika, I am not disputing Kapil's argument that she is a dumbo. Also, we may not rule out the conspiracy theory that she must be working at the behest of this 'infamous' government with an ulterior motive. But, we should not forget that a wildfire is always caused by a little spark. This whole episode is a sad commentary on the functioning of our Army which could not correct a mistake at their own level.
 
vpsingh said:
ब्याह के सारे गीत सच नहीं होया करते I This whole episode is a sad commentary on the functioning of our Army which could not correct a mistake at their own level.
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यह लो तो ब्याह के सचे गीत सुन ल्यो!! क्यूँ झूठे गीतां पे थिरक्कना!?

Good One Sir, after all these efforts, at least you moved your gun from General (as an individual) to Army (clerical deptt)!!. If you just move it a little bit more, then the Gun will aim at right Target: The Govt.!!

Adjutant General Branch is the official record keeper in the Army and according to it General Singh's date of birth is May 10, 1951.​
Discrepancy is not from Army side, they maintain DOB as claimed by General, it's the govt who wants to throw away a 'non-cooperating' honest officer and replace him with some body more 'pliable'.



A) 4 Former CJIs and ex-attorney back General (on validity of his legal claim):

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Age-row-Four-former-CJIs-come-out-in-support-of-Army-chief/articleshow/11544974.cms

B) 'Army chief targeted for taking on corrupt' :
Former Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat says the row over army chief's age is just a smokescreen.

​

C) "Of course, this is the reason". Former chief justice of India J. S. Varma has said Singh had brought in probity and honesty. He is being moved out just when large arms deals are going to be signed.

http://news.in.msn.com/exclusives/it/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5763589

In Short, Govt is back to it's dirty tricks deptt. Deja-Vu of Lokpal fiasco?​
 
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karan said:
General is absolutely correct. Basically what he is saying is.....don't use some trivial matter to end his tenure, have some cajones and fire him, if Gov't of India wants someone else as COAS. I don't think anyone will have any issue with that...Gov't has the right to choose the military chief that they deem fit for the job.
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Karan ji, to further your observation, I wish to add that every ex-serviceman while presenting his credentials/ CV would always submit that he was honourably discharged after serving for so many years in army/ navy/ aiforce! Therefore, in my opinion the General is aspiring to be "Discharged from service Honourably"!
 
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What is the real issue with the age?

>Did he lie about the age?
>Was it a clerical error? (But if it was should have been picked up much earlier by himself).

If he lied he should accept and leave. If it was an error it should be fixed.

If someone could enlighten on this?
 
You are a late entrant, going through the posts might help. :)

VirJ said:
What is the real issue with the age?

>Did he lie about the age?
>Was it a clerical error? (But if it was should have been picked up much earlier by himself).

If he lied he should accept and leave. If it was an error it should be fixed.

If someone could enlighten on this?
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