Ayodhya attack: Terrorists storm disputed structure

Status
Not open for further replies.
Is it the Hon'be PM descending here to defend himself or someone his namesake ? Ha..ha..

Any way, dear Manmohan Singhji,

Though I respect Sardar Manmohan Singh as an honest, competent and intelligent man, he seriously lacks leadership skills. There are two power centres, one of them being 10 Janpath and the other commos. He stands nowhere. To know this, you don't need hidden cameras just observe daily events carefully. The promises of employment are yet to materialise. Instead, they have completely banned government recruitment at lower levels and are talking of reservation even in private sector. They seem to be preparing coffins for the middle class educated youth which would certainly affect our own community.

The party president announcing relief from PM's relief fund publicly where PM is not even President was unheard of, the CMs talking to Sonia for aid to their states is indication enough that he is not the one taking decisions. Any problem in the coalition and he is not even informed, partners talk directly to Sonia. He is the only PM in Indian history who goes to airport to see off the party President defying all norms or protocol. During GOA and Jharkhand crisis/fiasco his not being aware of anything (in his own words) was explicit enough that power lies somewhere else. His own Home Minister didn't bother to report to him for two clear days. The following extracts from a news item which appeared in a national magazine, and I quote, speaks volumes :

"PM angry at being ignored by ministers

13 June 2005:

Enraged at key policy decisions coming to the cabinet for approval without his knowledge or consent, prime minister Manmohan Singh has demanded of his ministers to submit all draft and final cabinet notes to his office beforehand.

What has galled the PM is that the UPA ministers scorned two letters written by cabinet secretary B.K.Chaturvedi in September 2004 and in March this year instructing that all draft cabinet notes had to be submitted to the PMO and its comments awaited for fifteen days, and a third letter with similar instructions, but in tougher language, was sent on 12 May, exhibiting Manmohan’s exasperation with his colleagues.

Officials said that the PM has been growingly faced with the ignominy of learning of several new policies awaiting cabinet approval from the newspapers."

The stint of the UPA government has been marked by the rising prices of essential commodities; a rising inflation rate (which crossed 8 per cent from 5 per cent) and umpteen political controversies, be it on Savarkar, the national flag or the issue of `tainted' Ministers. On crucial political matters, too, the PM has given the impression of not being in control: whether on the issue of Punjab terminating the river water sharing treaty it signed with its neighbouring States, the unrest in Manipur over the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, the flip-flop by the Karnataka government following Uma Bharati's arrest, or Jharkhand Mukti Morcha leader Shibu Soren trying to evade arrest as a Union Minister.

The conduct in Parliament by all parties has been absolutely dismal.

Having the likes of Laloo Prasad Yadav and Sibu Soren (thank god he's back into political wilderness again) as union ministers is shameful.

An uninspiring, dull and dreary performance, devoid of anything tangible.

He is a good economist having excellent credentials, no doubt, but HE IS A PM IN SHACKLES. His contribution as FM can never be forgotten but at the same time we must remember that he had been given free hand by PVN. He may have been an economic lion but today he is a lion performing in circus being directed from behind the curtains. Promising jobs and talking of reservation even in private sector, stalling even the ongoing infrastructure projects, decrease in FE reserves by almost a billion instead of new FIs are not what Manmohan Singh is known for. Raise any issue and at the best what you can expect is the appointment of a Committee (67 committees in less than a year is mind blowing). Appointment of a committee means to prolong the problem to die its own death or let the people forget about them.

In Indian politics he is not the first and perhaps not the last educated person. There have been scores of them. Had degrees been the criteria Jichkar, MP from Maharashtra during Rajiv/PVN time, should have been PM long back as he had dozes of them. Our own Dr. Sarup Singh was not less educated and competent.

His non-performance, I am afraid, is an offer to those whom you all hate so much for their Hindutva agenda and remember there will be no moderate Vajpayee this time. Hence it may be the worst. Personally I would welcome them as a quick death is hundred times better than prolonged cancerous disease.
 
Last edited:
Part I

ramksehrawat said:
Is it the Hon'be PM descending here to defend himself or someone his namesake ? Ha..ha..

His non-performance, I am afraid, is an offer to those whom you all hate so much for their Hindutva agenda and remember there will be no moderate Vajpayee this time. Hence it may be the worst. Personally I would welcome them as a quick death is hundred times better than prolonged cancerous disease.

Dear Ram Sehrawat ji,

Thanks for pointing out the resemblance in our names; I was afraid that it might go unnoticed. :) And I thank heavens that our PM still has not started responding to every blog that mentions his name or that pass a judgment on the way he is functioning, coz this means that he still has got his priorities straight and is probably doing the job that he has been mandated to do.

Two thoughts come to my mind right now - first one is, "khilaye ka naam na hota, ruwaye ka naam ho jya sai". Since we come from the country of great archer Arjuna, we selectively "choose to" see what we wish to see and ignore everything else. Probably that explains the notice of the news item that you have quoted and also mention of things like rising inflation, but a complete brushing aside of the fact that inflation was already on a rise when this Govt. took over. And let's not conveniently forget that this was the year when crude oil prices went up from around $35 to the record high of nearly $60 and the monsoon too left a lot to be desired this past year. It surely does not take a genius economist to fathom what effect these could have on the inflation rate in our country. Also, probably it is a matter of trivial detail that inflation is heading southwards of late and is appreciably below the 8% levels that were prevailing in August last year. Further, we managed a GDP growth of nearly 6.9% in the face of such circumstances; a rate which any country with economy our size would be proud to have achieved.

As regards the new articles, we all know that for every article praising the deeds of any govt., there would be two others that would criticize the functioning of some other aspect of the same govt. A healthy fourth estate is critical for not only disseminating awareness tidbits to hoi-polloi but also it provides the crucial feedback mechanism on the policies of the government that is so important for keeping checks on the direction any administration is taking. However, it would be naive to take everything in the press at its face value; we have to use our prudence to separate the substance from the fluff. Yes, it is also true that we all choose our prudence (to varying degrees) to see what we wish to see. And some people prefer to notice more flaws than the virtues...

Further, I would go back to what I said in my earlier post - let's not forget that this UPA Govt. is an amalgamation of parties that have innate ideological differences and is more like the proverbial "bhanumati ka kunba". I am sure that in your professional life you would have got the opportunity(ies) to lead cross-cultural, multi-functional and trans-national teams; how was your experience, Sehrawatji? Was it smooth sailing everytime? And more importantly were all of your deeds "perfect" and "criticism free"? I have not met anyone who could claim that her/his deeds have never been criticized; I would be honored to make acquaintance with her/him if you could introduce such a person to me. We all have witnessed the scenes in our "baraats" where there are more than one "chowdhary" and we all would accept that such baraats are prone to lose directions more easily than those ones which have one "chowdhary" leading the baraat. And it’s no coincidence that the multi-chowdhary led baraats innumerably take longer time to reach the destination. This "bhanumati ka kunba" is no different fighting a war out there on different fronts, ensuring at the same time that they do not fall down under their own weight as the mass of different parts of the body of this behemoth is not converging towards the same center of gravity thanks to multiple “chowdharies” in this Government. In this war there are battles everyday – and like any other war you win some and you lose some.

I am not saying that everything that this government (or the ones that preceded the current govt.) has done is worthy of kudos. Admittedly, the central governments have long neglected the welfare of North Eastern states and the results are for all to see - corruption, unemployment and unrest fomenting different terrorist/separatist movements in these states. But then we have seen this Govt. admitting this mistake and begin an honest attempt to remedy this. However, the effects of years of wrong doings are not going to go away overnight; it is going to be a long and painful journey before normalcy returns there. What is important though, is that there is an honest attempt to embark upon that journey has been initiated by this govt.

Regarding the monstrous unemployment in our country, surely it will be foolhardy to expect any government to solve this problem in one year. More so when there resources have gone scarcer in the face of increasing budgetary deficits – thanks in part due to policies like continued subsidization of petroleum products and other populist measures in our country. Any economist would tell us that these kinds of policies are not sustainable in the long run, but then they are necessary to certain extent in a country like ours. However, what makes the matters worse is that attempts of resource generation like tax reforms or selective privatization of public sector undertakings is vehemently opposed by the commies and other political parties. This is akin to bleeding ourselves to death, but then what else do you expect (or what can you do) if you have commies as your boat-mates. Obviously, the reforms would be slowed down as the parties deliberate and maneuver on what policies to adopt and how. Admittedly, in the meantime the slow process is bound to frustrate some of us and give the illusion that nothing is happening. Moreover, the unemployment is not the exclusive responsibility of the Govt. – the common man also has to share some responsibility. We have to realize that the government jobs are not going to grow as we go forward. The blossoming private sector provides one alternative. The need is for us to inspire our children to get educated to don the roles of leaders in the private sector and aspire to become employment generators rather than employment seekers. No doubt that the education system in our country desperately needs a overhauling, but than this is not going to happen overnight. Till the time such things happen, can’t we as the populace take the lead, look at our traditional/cultural strengths (handicrafts, for example) and find ways to generate employment opportunities for others in addition to our own selves? I don’t think that it is fair to blame one person for our collective inability to do so.

Similarly, I couldn’t agree more with the notion that the reservation in the private sector is definitely a move that is going to take us backward, but do we seriously believe that it is implementable? Is it really possible to dictate the private sector in a democracy about their recruitment policies? I have serious doubts about this. We all know that politics is a funny game (pun intended) and in this game sometimes what we see is not what it really is. This particular move seems to me to be more of a red-herring to placate the regional politicians rather than a really substantive move by UPA Govt. As it is we have witnessed emergence of regional and local issues over the national issues in the past few elections; hence the hegemony of local leaders like Lalu Yadav, Mayawati, Jayalalitha, Karunanidhi and their ilk and their rise to national level politics. I am sure that if you look at the national leaders, you are not going to find many, thanks to the localization of priorities of electorate across the country. Nowadays we throw our governments out for “potatoes and onions” but do not blink an eye for the continued botching up of national issues by our politicians. Yes sir, it is people like you and me who are responsible for this messy state of affairs. We claim to be educated, but we don't go to vote in the elections and the result is that mostly (comparatively) illiterate and emotional populace goes and votes the Lalus and Jayalalithas back to power again and again. After all, who is responsible for the fractured verdict which has made the sustenance of this government nothing short then a tight rope walk and tied the hands of this govt.? It is we - the people of India. We first do this and then have the gumption of sitting back in the comfort of our houses/offices and tearing the work of those individuals who are honest (in contrast to self serving, slick politicians) and are trying to give us an alternative to the bunch of communal fanatics, who not too long ago claim(ed) to provide solace from the "decades of corruption / dynastic rule" and turned out to be no better (if actually not worse) than from the ones that they were claiming to salvage us from. Let's remember that any chain is as strong as its weakest link and there are many weak links in this chain that is the UPA Govt. (read, commies, leaders like Lalu Yadav, Ram Vilas Paswan etc.). We have given ourselves this Govt., so let's at least give them enough time before we pass a verdict on their performance.
(please see part II)
 
Last edited:
Part II

The second thought that comes to my mind is that of the commentators who seem to know much more than the players on the crease. They seem to find hajaar faults with the techniques of the players sitting from a distance and sound as if they are "khalifa"s who could do nothing wrong if bat/ball is in their hands. However, if one were to revert to the clippings of their own play, it would not be difficult to find the horrible instances of plays in addition to the good and glorious ones. Only the one who is in the middle of the ground knows how it is there; the rest can only speculate. There is a reason why they are there in the middle - somebody thought that they are the best. And our best can do the right things some of the times and maybe fail to do so some other times. But we do not pass judgment till the time the game is over. And this game is far from over. One has to learn to accept the reality and do the best with whatever resources/strengths one has, because if we keep glossing over what we "should/could/would" have than we would be staring at the dust long after the caravan has passed. Unfortunately, this "bhanumati ka kunba" is the best that Dr. Singh has and he (and the congress party administration) does not have much choice when it comes to negotiating the portfolios for the leaders of different supporting parties.

Lastly, I firmly believe in fighting till the last breath (and till the time it is prudent) rather than dying in one go. I hope that there are more people in my country even today who would like to fight till the end rather than call it quits - by "dying quickly". After all the foundation of the freedom that you and I enjoy is built with the blood and on the dead bodies of martyrs who fought till their last breaths (inspite of having zilch in terms of resources compared to the mighty british). I would reserve my respect for those who would like to "fight the cancer" rather than those who would "die quickly".

My apologies if anything written above offends you personally, it is just an expression of my beliefs in response to what you had expressed

Best regards,

Manu
 
Last edited:
Dear sir,

First thing I am not a supporter of BJP ,but I will always support that group which is more efficient or less corrupt..

You are very right why BJP unable to implement Uniform civil code ? But if you see their tally in Loksabha that was around 180 at that time.. they were not in full majority.

But can you suppoirt any act of present congress govt . and if you look itno the past congress is responsible for this Ayodhaya dispute.

Why rajiv gandhi allowed Shialyanyas at ayodhaya just before the 1989 election and later on abolish it.

Why former Urban and town planning minister Mr Jagmohan failed to win New delhi loksabha seat inspite of his good work ????

Regards
Jitender



raj2rif said:
Hi,

There was a difference between attack on parlimanet and our religiuos place e.g. ayodhya..

an I think Advani is doing right thing..( its my personal opinion)..

I know we all have to make efforts towards better development of our country and think beyond our religion.

But what the present government is doing increse the subsidy on HAZ yatra increase the quota of muslims in AMU.

why they dont implement common civil code.

If France can do that why dont we ??????????

Today british is also feeling a same threat and danger of Islamic extremism.

and hopefully they will definately make some changes in their immigiration policy.

I know both party congress and bjp are bad. But will support that party which is less bad.

I remembered those days in 1996 election year in haryana , Mr bansilal honestly agreed that 'every politician is correct, but vote for them who is less corrupt '

and everybody knew the result He won a election.

so if we have politicain like mulayam singh yadav or maulana mulayam ( who was photographed with jawed miandad recently, and now everone knows miandad's son os going to marry dawood 's daughter )

we will always have leaders like advani and Togadia in reaction.



Again, its my personal issue..

Regards
Jitender

Dear Mr. Jitender

Regarding Uniform Civil Code. BJP was in power for 5 years, I wonder why did they not implement the uniform code?

Secondly, Mulayam Singh Yadav's soft corner for Muslims, is purely because of the votes that he needs to remain in power. The irony is that even Hindus voted for him. He can't come into power purely on muslim and yadav votes. The fact is when it comes to our personal advantage, be it allowing copying in exams (Mulayam announced it on his victory in elections after Kalyan Singh's first innings as CM) or be it waiving the electricity bills, or any little favor, we all support these politicians, least realizing the harm they are going to cause to the country and the society. The common man is some how obsessed with the daily situations and short term gains. That is because of the poverty. Politics is a complex issue and unless a common man is educated about the various social, economic and security issues, the rouge politicians will continue to win elections and rule the country.

I have never been a supporter of the Congress, but that does not mean I would support opposition parties even if they do the wrong thing. I personally feel that all these bundhs and religious cards played by any political party or religion should be condemned. We should not support the likes of Mr. Mulayam or Advani or for that matter any one else who want to divide the nation in the name of religion or castism. I am also against all kind of reservations except providing financial help to the needy students so that they can compete with their more fortunate competitors.
 
meetmanu said:
. Yes sir, it is people like you and me who are responsible for this messy state of affairs. We claim to be educated, but we don't go to vote in the elections and the result is that mostly (comparatively) illiterate and emotional populace goes and votes the Lalus and Jayalalithas back to power again and again. After all, who is responsible for the fractured verdict which has made the sustenance of this government nothing short then a tight rope walk and tied the hands of this govt.? It is we - the people of India. We first do this and then have the gumption of sitting back in the comfort of our houses/offices and tearing the work of those individuals who are honest (in contrast to self serving, slick politicians) and are trying to give us an alternative to the bunch of communal fanatics,

Well said sir, It is that what we need to do todya.
 
The Question is of Not being a Supporter or otherwise

First thing I am not a supporter of BJP ,but I will always support that group which is more efficient or less corrupt..

You are very right why BJP unable to implement Uniform civil code ? But if you see their tally in Loksabha that was around 180 at that time.. they were not in full majority.

But can you suppoirt any act of present congress govt . and if you look itno the past congress is responsible for this Ayodhaya dispute.

Why rajiv gandhi allowed Shialyanyas at ayodhaya just before the 1989 election and later on abolish it.

Why former Urban and town planning minister Mr Jagmohan failed to win New delhi loksabha seat inspite of his good work ????

Regards
Jitender

Dear Jitender,
Firstly, there is nothing wrong for any one being supporter of BJP or Congress. It is his/her personal preference. My way of looking at Politics has been a little different. I have my views based on issues rather than Patries or Political Leaders. Corrupt is Corrupt whether it is less or more. I do agree with you that one must support which is more efficient if corruption is the common quality of both the ruling party as well as that of opposition. What Jinna did or what Jawaharlal Nehru did, can't be changed now. Probably Dr. Manmohan Singh had no infuluence on their acts and thus we shall not hold any grudge against him or for that matter any one else for the acts of past unless they were party to it and they had the opportunity to raise their voice. It is precisely, for this reason, I don't like people like Jagjivan Ram. He was the # 2 man in Mrs. Gandhi's cabinet when the emergency was imposed, yet he left the congress in 1977 and joined the Janta Party and became the Dy PM. It was so unfortunate that Ch. Charan Singh shared the same post with this person while having the support of the largest group in Parliament, while Jagjivan Ram had only 28 MPs.

To me Ayodhya is not a dispute at all. I would recommend to break every thing there and open a university. One can name that University any thing. Probably a secular figure like Gandhi may be more appropriate. Or make it in the name of current President Dr. Abdul Kalam. If any PM can take that step. It is not the question of apeasing a particular communityh. When in Afghanistan Gautam Budh's statue is broken, we all cried, but not in case of Babri Masjid. Let us not try to change the history. They are our treasure and must be preserved. Probably maintained and publicised, so that we can generate some revenue for their preservation. No political party is doing that, whether it is BJP, Congress or the third front. Politics has been made family business and most of us like sheeps are still following these leaders, comforting ourselves by saying that one is less corrupt than the other.
The real issue is to find a useful solution. I am sure if we come up with a good solution, these fanatics whether it is a Hindu organization or the Muslim organization will be able to do nothing. This is the only way to defeat the communalism in our country.
Uniform Civil Code, is the good solution. Propogate that any one who does not support it is anti Indian. Make public believe it by good reasoning and a very effective campaign. You will be surprised that the bill then could have been passed with even less than 118 members. I wish BJP had spent half the money on this campaign than the one they spent on "India Shining".
 
Dear Jitender,
jitender_singh said:
Dear sir,

First thing I am not a supporter of BJP ,but I will always support that group which is more efficient or less corrupt..
do you mean that BJP is less corrupt ?
jitender_singh said:
You are very right why BJP unable to implement Uniform civil code ? But if you see their tally in Loksabha that was around 180 at that time.. they were not in full majority.

Meanwhile don't forget that BJP was the bigest party in number in the parliament...
or if you want to say that BJP will make Uniform civil code when it itself got 272 seats then my dear forget it, In future neither BJP nor congress will not be able to get 272 seats...



jitender_singh said:
But can you suppoirt any act of present congress govt . and if you look itno the past congress is responsible for this Ayodhaya dispute.....
Why rajiv gandhi allowed Shialyanyas at ayodhaya just before the 1989 election and later on abolish it...

("why"). my dear Jitender could you like to answer that why BJP destroyed the Babri Masjid ?

What a leader of RSS recently said in their MUKPATRA that the dream of RAM TEMPLE could not became reality due to the politics of ADVANI, if he did not play politics in this matter then we would be able to see the Ram Temple in reality.
He also praised RAJIV Gandhi for allowing SILYANAS and opening the Ram Mandir for the worshiper. In his words none had protest his decision... So in same way if ADVANI tried then the construction of RAM TEMPLE could be done.


Regards
Jitender[/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:
Sorry sir,

As per your comments I cant see Babri masjid as a national Treasure , for me babar was a intruder..

I know corrupt is corrupt but if you see all are corrupt you will go for less corrupt..

All world is facing a Global terrorism due to these fanatics Muslims , You are still talking about hindus and muslims.

Asked British here how they feel now towards muslim, after July7 attacks.

despite in Majority, we in our own country are not safe...

Muslims have created little pakistan in hyderabad, Kanpur etc. where they celebrate whne India loose to pakistan.

According to them, Population control is against the belief of ISLAM.

DO we call them Indians? Sorry I can't ..

With Regards
Jitender







raj2rif said:
First thing I am not a supporter of BJP ,but I will always support that group which is more efficient or less corrupt..

You are very right why BJP unable to implement Uniform civil code ? But if you see their tally in Loksabha that was around 180 at that time.. they were not in full majority.

But can you suppoirt any act of present congress govt . and if you look itno the past congress is responsible for this Ayodhaya dispute.

Why rajiv gandhi allowed Shialyanyas at ayodhaya just before the 1989 election and later on abolish it.

Why former Urban and town planning minister Mr Jagmohan failed to win New delhi loksabha seat inspite of his good work ????

Regards
Jitender

Dear Jitender,
Firstly, there is nothing wrong for any one being supporter of BJP or Congress. It is his/her personal preference. My way of looking at Politics has been a little different. I have my views based on issues rather than Patries or Political Leaders. Corrupt is Corrupt whether it is less or more. I do agree with you that one must support which is more efficient if corruption is the common quality of both the ruling party as well as that of opposition. What Jinna did or what Jawaharlal Nehru did, can't be changed now. Probably Dr. Manmohan Singh had no infuluence on their acts and thus we shall not hold any grudge against him or for that matter any one else for the acts of past unless they were party to it and they had the opportunity to raise their voice. It is precisely, for this reason, I don't like people like Jagjivan Ram. He was the # 2 man in Mrs. Gandhi's cabinet when the emergency was imposed, yet he left the congress in 1977 and joined the Janta Party and became the Dy PM. It was so unfortunate that Ch. Charan Singh shared the same post with this person while having the support of the largest group in Parliament, while Jagjivan Ram had only 28 MPs.

To me Ayodhya is not a dispute at all. I would recommend to break every thing there and open a university. One can name that University any thing. Probably a secular figure like Gandhi may be more appropriate. Or make it in the name of current President Dr. Abdul Kalam. If any PM can take that step. It is not the question of apeasing a particular communityh. When in Afghanistan Gautam Budh's statue is broken, we all cried, but not in case of Babri Masjid. Let us not try to change the history. They are our treasure and must be preserved. Probably maintained and publicised, so that we can generate some revenue for their preservation. No political party is doing that, whether it is BJP, Congress or the third front. Politics has been made family business and most of us like sheeps are still following these leaders, comforting ourselves by saying that one is less corrupt than the other.
The real issue is to find a useful solution. I am sure if we come up with a good solution, these fanatics whether it is a Hindu organization or the Muslim organization will be able to do nothing. This is the only way to defeat the communalism in our country.
Uniform Civil Code, is the good solution. Propogate that any one who does not support it is anti Indian. Make public believe it by good reasoning and a very effective campaign. You will be surprised that the bill then could have been passed with even less than 118 members. I wish BJP had spent half the money on this campaign than the one they spent on "India Shining".
 
Dear Mukesh,

Well, I have nothing to do with BJP or congress..

I am not a politician. I have commented here what I feel as a Indian.

If Advani is doing wrong thing or gave bad speech..I will not support him at all..

I am supporting idealogy not any paricular individual..

What you think about our PM Manmohan singh who said recently British Rule was good for us..?



mukesh_kumar007 said:
Dear Jitender,

do you mean that BJP is less corrupt ?


Meanwhile don't forget that BJP was the bigest party in number in the parliament...
or if you want to say that BJP will make Uniform civil code when it itself got 272 seats then my dear forget it, In future neither BJP nor congress will not be able to get 272 seats...





("why"). my dear Jitender could you like to answer that why BJP destroyed the Babri Masjid ?

What a leader of RSS recently said in their MUKPATRA that the dream of RAM TEMPLE could not became reality due to the politics of ADVANI, if he did not play politics in this matter then we would be able to see the Ram Temple in reality.
He also praised RAJIV Gandhi for allowing SILYANAS and opening the Ram Mandir for the worshiper. In his words none had protest his decision... So in same way if ADVANI tried then the construction of RAM TEMPLE could be done.


Regards
Jitender
[/QUOTE]
 
It is the Perception

Sorry sir,

As per your comments I cant see Babri masjid as a national Treasure , for me babar was a intruder..

I know corrupt is corrupt but if you see all are corrupt you will go for less corrupt..

All world is facing a Global terrorism due to these fanatics Muslims , You are still talking about hindus and muslims.

Asked British here how they feel now towards muslim, after July7 attacks.

despite in Majority, we in our own country are not safe...

Muslims have created little pakistan in hyderabad, Kanpur etc. where they celebrate whne India loose to pakistan.

According to them, Population control is against the belief of ISLAM.

DO we call them Indians? Sorry I can't ..

With Regards
Jitender

Dear Jitender,
Firstly, no doubt about Babar being intruder. We often talk that we the "Jats" are from the Europe or Aryans who came from Europe, or for that matter some other country. If that be true, then who we are? Are we also not the decendents of intruders. To me that logic does not stand good.
Now second questions of how British's feel after July07 attacks? We have nothing to do with what they feel. Terrorism is to be condemned in all it forms and menifestations. Whether it is committed by Hindu or Muslim, White or Black, Majority or Minority.
What probably is the larger issue here is state sponsored terrorism. Many states resort to it, some at a smaller scale and some as a national defense policy.

Do you think "Taj Mahal" is a national treasure? If that be so, it is against the basic tenant of the humanity. 26000 people lost their hands in building that building? Then why not make some thing else there at that place? What I am trying to convey here is, let us not destroy what ever is existing. If you or some one else want to build a Ram Temple, one can build any where, or if it is to be build at Ayodhya itself, then it could have been built along side the Babri Masjid. That would have shown a greater character.

The issue here was as to how the opposition had acted on the terror attacks? They call it the failure of the Congress Government, what about a bigger issue, when people infiltrated in Kargil during BJP rule and we lost much more than what we have lost now in Ayodhya. That time the BJP government wanted the Nation to unite and now they want to stall every proceeding and disrupt the normal law and order situation. How can they justify it, is beyond my imagination.

Congress may not be the best thing to rule the country, but what BJP is doing by these protests and agitation, is doing any thing good to the nation. The political parties and leaders need to find more innovative ways to express their dissatisfaction against any government program, that does not affect the law and order situation and does not put a burden on national exchequer.
 
Respcted Sir,

Do you want to say we are intruders just like Mughals who destroyed everything where they went..temples,culture or those mughal kings who implement Zazia ( tax on hindus) .

British are tasting their own medicine in early 80's british and americans support bin laden against russians. see what he is doing today.

I am not talking about only britain everywhere in world Indonesia,Middle East,entire europe,south asia, they want to talibanise the whole world.

I have just taken an example of Britian as in india also we are treating these muslims in a similar way.

there are few facts :-

in 1950 assam have only 3 % of muslim pouplation , now they have one third of muslim population.thats why today we are facing a problem of ULFA and BODO due to political negligence .

on the UP-Nepal border in last few years, They have constructed hundreds of Madarsas who trained anti national elements ..

If we see Gujarat riots the hindus who were involved in that were not agents of BJp or Bajrang dal , those were common people of Gujarat who were facing threats from Islamic Barbarism.

one of my friend was there in Baroda at the time of riots.

and that particular place godhra is like a mini pakistan.

and if we see our haryana , particularly south haryana region like Mewat, Nuh even Police unable to enter Mew villages to trap anti- social elements.

I am fully agreed Terrorism is terrorism either its by Hindu Muslim or Christian, I am tottaly against what America is doing in IRAQ instead of curbing Terrorism , it has create a new hUB for Al-qaida.

Well about ayodhya, it doesn't matter to common people, his first need is roti,kapda aur makaan.

But Ayodhya is only one of those incident which is causing anger in mind of Hindus , its not the only one.

If you are talking about past, we have already forget what aurangzeb had done to hindus or what ghaznavi had done to Somnath temples.

But we have to take some hard steps. I dont want that our future generation blamed us in similar way what we are blaming our present and past leaders.


I am fully agreed neither congress nor BJP is better, both are trying to stabilise themselves. see what happens in Bihar and Gujarat.

we common people are paying from our pocket for that extra expenditure on election in Bihar.


Regards
Jitender







Dear Jitender,
Firstly, no doubt about Babar being intruder. We often talk that we the "Jats" are from the Europe or Aryans who came from Europe, or for that matter some other country. If that be true, then who we are? Are we also not the decendents of intruders. To me that logic does not stand good.
Now second questions of how British's feel after July07 attacks? We have nothing to do with what they feel. Terrorism is to be condemned in all it forms and menifestations. Whether it is committed by Hindu or Muslim, White or Black, Majority or Minority.
What probably is the larger issue here is state sponsored terrorism. Many states resort to it, some at a smaller scale and some as a national defense policy.

Do you think "Taj Mahal" is a national treasure? If that be so, it is against the basic tenant of the humanity. 26000 people lost their hands in building that building? Then why not make some thing else there at that place? What I am trying to convey here is, let us not destroy what ever is existing. If you or some one else want to build a Ram Temple, one can build any where, or if it is to be build at Ayodhya itself, then it could have been built along side the Babri Masjid. That would have shown a greater character.

The issue here was as to how the opposition had acted on the terror attacks? They call it the failure of the Congress Government, what about a bigger issue, when people infiltrated in Kargil during BJP rule and we lost much more than what we have lost now in Ayodhya. That time the BJP government wanted the Nation to unite and now they want to stall every proceeding and disrupt the normal law and order situation. How can they justify it, is beyond my imagination.

Congress may not be the best thing to rule the country, but what BJP is doing by these protests and agitation, is doing any thing good to the nation. The political parties and leaders need to find more innovative ways to express their dissatisfaction against any government program, that does not affect the law and order situation and does not put a burden on national exchequer.[/QUOTE]
 
We Can't Brand Every Muslim a Terrorist

Respcted Sir,

Do you want to say we are intruders just like Mughals who destroyed everything where they went..temples,culture or those mughal kings who implement Zazia ( tax on hindus) .

British are tasting their own medicine in early 80's british and americans support bin laden against russians. see what he is doing today.

I am not talking about only britain everywhere in world Indonesia,Middle East,entire europe,south asia, they want to talibanise the whole world.

I have just taken an example of Britian as in india also we are treating these muslims in a similar way.

there are few facts :-

in 1950 assam have only 3 % of muslim pouplation , now they have one third of muslim population.thats why today we are facing a problem of ULFA and BODO due to political negligence .

on the UP-Nepal border in last few years, They have constructed hundreds of Madarsas who trained anti national elements ..

If we see Gujarat riots the hindus who were involved in that were not agents of BJp or Bajrang dal , those were common people of Gujarat who were facing threats from Islamic Barbarism.

one of my friend was there in Baroda at the time of riots.

and that particular place godhra is like a mini pakistan.

and if we see our haryana , particularly south haryana region like Mewat, Nuh even Police unable to enter Mew villages to trap anti- social elements.

I am fully agreed Terrorism is terrorism either its by Hindu Muslim or Christian, I am tottaly against what America is doing in IRAQ instead of curbing Terrorism , it has create a new hUB for Al-qaida.

Well about ayodhya, it doesn't matter to common people, his first need is roti,kapda aur makaan.

But Ayodhya is only one of those incident which is causing anger in mind of Hindus , its not the only one.

If you are talking about past, we have already forget what aurangzeb had done to hindus or what ghaznavi had done to Somnath temples.

But we have to take some hard steps. I dont want that our future generation blamed us in similar way what we are blaming our present and past leaders.


I am fully agreed neither congress nor BJP is better, both are trying to stabilise themselves. see what happens in Bihar and Gujarat.

we common people are paying from our pocket for that extra expenditure on election in Bihar.


Regards
Jitender

Dear Jitender,
Calling a particual person or race as invader or immigrant is one's own perception. So that is not the issue here. If we see the conflicts those are going on around the world say from last 60-70 years, one of the warring party is of Islamic faith. But that does not mean that my next door muslim neighbor is terrorist, just because he happens to be following that particular religion/faith.

We as a race failed to counter those invaders in past and thus paid the penalty. Those islamic invaders became part of this country and that is the truth. We just can't keep arguing that all muslims must leave this country because they all are decendents of Babar. Many Mougle kings were bad and so were many Hindu kings. I find Jaichand of Kannauj no better than any Mougle king. True, the mougle kings made lots of forts and Makabras, but they are good pieces of architect and thus national treasure. They are all part of our history and thus must be preserved. We must preserve the history for it gives some very valuable lessons to us.

We have various restaurants named Mougle, and Akbar. Let me tell you, most of these are owned by Hindus. These business names are considered the brand name in the industry. Similarly we have "TAJ".

The issue here is what is the right thing to do? Let us not become the stool in the hand of these political leaders, who instigate the religious passion and watch the damage from outside. If there are pockets of such areas, where people can't do any thing as far as law and order are concerned, then it is the failure of administration and our law and order machinary. If there is one area in Haryana or Andhra Pradesh where no one can enter because the administration has no control, then it is the administration that is to be blamed and not that community. I am sure if the administration is honest, they will be able to address the problem and solve it.
 
raj2rif said:
But that does not mean that my next door muslim neighbor is terrorist, just because he happens to be following that particular religion/faith.
.
If I believe what is being written in british newspapers, suicide bombers who carried out those attack were "good looking sporty lads" too, who were "gentle, happy and normal". They were second generation pakistanis who grew up in comfort zones of western europe. But still they killed innocent people in the name of religion. Omar Sheikh who killed Daniel Pearl was an LSE alumni investment banker. I am not sure about other members but hereon it will be extremely difficult for me to trust my "next door muslim neighbor".
 
The suicide bombers in England have certainly damaged the reputation of professionals who have tried to stereotype potential terrorists. I do not think it is a good idea for a brown skinned fellow to carry a backpack from now on. The impact to the broader South Asian community is going to be terrible for long time to come.
 
You're right Dr Birbal Singh ji; and it is these moments which make you realize that we might have come very far indeed, but still the color of human skin remains such a potent issue before us....I saw a clip in one of the other threads on Jatland in which Gandhi ji is noted as saying that he believe in one world...how ironical is that dream in light of the phase from which our world is passing through...
 
Last edited:
That is Exactly What A Terrorist Want

abhishek said:
If I believe what is being written in british newspapers, suicide bombers who carried out those attack were "good looking sporty lads" too, who were "gentle, happy and normal". They were second generation pakistanis who grew up in comfort zones of western europe. But still they killed innocent people in the name of religion. Omar Sheikh who killed Daniel Pearl was an LSE alumni investment banker. I am not sure about other members but hereon it will be extremely difficult for me to trust my "next door muslim neighbor".

Dear Mr. Abhishek,

That is exactly what a terrorist want. It may look stupid to us to believe our neighbors or trust our muslim community people, but I would still say that we do have good and bad people in all communities and races. The the actual target of the terrorist is not only the people who have lost their lives, but also those who have watched the damage on their TV Screens, Newspapers as well as first hand witnesses. If we start suspecting every muslim, and every colored skin person, then probably we are just helping these terrorists.
 
raj2rif said:
The the actual target of the terrorist is not only the people who have lost their lives, but also those who have watched the damage on their TV Screens, Newspapers as well as first hand witnesses. If we start suspecting every muslim, and every colored skin person, then probably we are just helping these terrorists.

Well said uncleji, if we suspect every muslim then it means we don't beleive in humanity. I have many muslim friends and, I always find them fully Patriotic . Hath ki pancho unguliya ek saman nahi hoti and in the same we can find good and bad people in every community.
 
Bogus mentality!

...You know what a *!#~ mess! Here there is this Nation which seems to be running a never ending open tap of terrorism (I mean India itself has been shouting at the top of it's lungs since time immemorable to whoever cares to listen about it, USA has already followed links back to this Nation and now even UK wakes up and finds that all the sucide bombers are expats and persons of origin form this very same #*!@~ country!!! :mad:

And what is the sane/free world doing about it??? It is such a bogus never ending discussion that one wonders what are these other big nations that consider themselves the police of the world really doing???[... behind all that facade of 'taking the fight to the terrorists' and 'united against terrorism' kind of almost hypocritical statements!?!]

On top of that it is comical to see them scrambling to make tighter restrictions and security updates (all kinds of terror levels!) within, when they should really go for the threat posed by this certain nation's lack of control on it's own partisan elements!
 
Last edited:
rkumar said:
Many times the source of information for all agencies is just one like newspaper taking their story from PTI. Stories are often planted as booby traps. Intelligence gathering has to be work of very intelligent people as the very word says...One cannot control locust when its eggs are already hatched.... May be India worked on laying booby traps for terrorists. Surely this can be done... Opposition has no reason to agitate as security agencies have done commandable job in this case..Looks like Advani ji wants to regain his Hindutva cards after loosing them in Pakistan.. Biggest joke is that Mr Modi has awarded the security forces Rs. 10.0 lacs and Advani Ji wants to go on strike...what an interesting (read stupid) game by BJP..

RK^2
No doubt security agencies has done a great job.I dont find any stupidity in awarding 10 lac by Mr Modi and Advaniji ......... .It is a DEBATABLE TOPIC .
Regards Achal Singh



ramksehrawat said:
About intelligence agencies, the less said the better. Just to show they have so many agents all over the country and abroad, funds are allocated but where the fund go is an open secret. After every such unfortunate incident, I think the security forces should put Togadia and his likes at least under house arrest if not put them in jail so that they don't try to spoil the communal harmony. The present opposition has no business to cry hoarse as during their tenure the terrorists had entered inter alia in Parliament and Akshardham temple. Security people could not have done better. We should be proud of them.
Khandhar episode was also a stigma to the present opposition and my motherland.NDA HAS DONE SOME GREAT WORKS TOO.Why we are after Togadia.Pl post Togadia/any strong man to see their daring to solve the kashmir problem.
Regards Achal Singh


jagmohan said:
Dear All,

And see how the politicians play the blame game. I agree with Rajender Ji. Let RSS, VHP & Bajrang Dal make a 'Jattha' that would storm Pakistan. I am ready to lead it provided all the leaders of the 'Sangh Parivar' send thier sons alongwith. I will make sure they are right in the front. If any one from this forum knows any 'Sangh Parivar Member' please give my offer to them. I have served in J&K long enough and I know many routes through which we can infiltrate.

Now the security would be TIGHT for a few days. BJP wallahs will say "Aar Par ki Ladai" or "Muh Tod Jawab Denge" for a few days and then stall parliamentry proceeding for weeks. Though all of them, cutting across party lines, would drink scotch in the finest of hotels in Delhi together.

And the ISI has already planned the next attack.

MERA BHARAT MAHAN.

Regards,

JS Malik
I am not a Sangh Pariwar Member but you can lead some operation to eliminate some one from list of Indias most wanted in PAK by taking me in front
Regards Achal Singh


mukesh_kumar007 said:
Looks like that Narendra Modi is only one DESBAGATH in this country. LOL.
It would be more better if he simply use this money to provide the relief to the Flood victim in GUJRAT. ...
and Advani to present politiciano maie se sabse JHOOTA & unreliable politician hai
There was a report that some BJPian & VHP workers attacked in a sufi shrine at Indore during the protest. ... oh God yeh kab sudhrenge.......
The BJP ruled states are doing well in infrastructure development.
Achal Singh
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top