Diselusened Military

[sachinb]

You are true, people have least idea how defence forces operates and under what conditions they leave.

I have seen people are coming with divisive ideas and sowing the seed of hatred among officers and Jawans, i feel ashamed that the community which boast of about its own brothers in both the cadres of forces ie officers as well as Jawans are talking in that manner.

How the hell do these people know that in what way the officers of Indian Army treat their Jawans.

Infact, before initiating this topic people should have concluded an opinion first that whether the Defence Forces have performed to the expectations of the Nation during all Wars and any other crisis which India has faced, I want that these lot of people should answer that till date how they rate the performance of Indian Defence Forces.

I personaly feel that this topic should not have been posted here where people donot know, donot want to know & have no interest & regards for defence services. I think, no two persons or services are equal, similarly defence services cannot be compared with any other service, what to talk about IAS. Defence service is a totally different way of life, which fortunates lead. I hope people know that military service is oldest service in the world & it has given a lot to the society beside keeping everybody safe to progress, to prepare for IAS/IIT/Medical etc & to talk any thing, on any thing & in any manner. I agree that written exam for civil service requires higher level of theoritical knowledge, grasping power & better style of answering on paper. Similarly the SSB is far, far difficult & very superior level of interview than the interview for IAS or other any service. because the requirement of IAS & Defence service (officer) is totally different. Any person with theoritical knowledge, higher IQ & better language can make to IAS, even if physically disabled/ weak. Where as higher IQ is equally required for defence officer plus the individual has to have very higher level of physical standard & leadership quilities (OLQ). A defence officer has to have a balance personalty. An IAS needs to have a clerical apptitude where as defence officer needs to have leadership qualities. An IAS is secretary to the leader where as defence officer is a leader himself. One can talk lot on the topic but there is no point in discussing here. It is true that today IAS people are more powerful, more united & running the govt. IAS are making ful use of reservation policy also. Thanks to God there is no reservation in defence. Salary- friends there is pay protection act of 1948 for defence officers according to which salary of defence officers had been always more than IAS, certainly there has to be some reason for higher salary. Rest in next, with regards.

 

[sachinb]

If the answer to above is in negative then we should not even talk about Defence Forces.
But If the answer is in affirmative that the performance of Forces have been good, in that cirmcumstances we have to see that:-

1. If Army performs well in that situation it means that the officers cadres have provided right leadership and the Jawans have executed them with perfection. Jawans as well as Officers are both very important and are intergral part of defence forces.

2. It is possible only if Jawans and Officers share best of the relationship. It can not happen that Officers treat their Jawans shabbily and still the Jawans are performing with their moral up, It is not possible that way(I saw in one of the thread people questioning the relationship among officer and Jawan)

3. The Officers share same hardships in the hostile condition which their Jawans face, its not like, during anti militancy operations special DOUBLE BEDS are taken on the back of Jawans in the hills of Jammu Kashmir and North-easterns states. Bullet doesnt differentiate between a Jawan and an Officer:rock

3. Let me clear the doubts of those who had some questions in their mind about british officers treating the Indian Jawans in Army. Gentlemen, the British Officers shared an excellent officer-Men relationship, I will say it was remarkable thats why they could survive for so long in India. How Britishers treated Indians I am not talking about, I am saying it only in Army perspective.

I will request please dont sow the seeds of hatred in the Defence forces which as of today is untouched from these things.

The kind of material i read here was something which Pakistan Intelligence use in the Propaganda during hostilities. Every now and then those agency keep on saying that the Forces moral is low, they are killing each other, officers care not about their troops, Indian govt doesnt care about Indian army so on and so forth.

 

[cooljat]

Sachin, commendable reply that makes lotta sense !!

If the answer to above is in negative then we should not even talk about Defence Forces.
But If the answer is in affirmative that the performance of Forces have been good, in that cirmcumstances we have to see that:-

1. If Army performs well in that situation it means that the officers cadres have provided right leadership and the Jawans have executed them with perfection. Jawans as well as Officers are both very important and are intergral part of defence forces.

2. It is possible only if Jawans and Officers share best of the relationship. It can not happen that Officers treat their Jawans shabbily and still the Jawans are performing with their moral up, It is not possible that way(I saw in one of the thread people questioning the relationship among officer and Jawan)

3. The Officers share same hardships in the hostile condition which their Jawans face, its not like, during anti militancy operations special DOUBLE BEDS are taken on the back of Jawans in the hills of Jammu Kashmir and North-easterns states. Bullet doesnt differentiate between a Jawan and an Officer:rock

3. Let me clear the doubts of those who had some questions in their mind about british officers treating the Indian Jawans in Army. Gentlemen, the British Officers shared an excellent officer-Men relationship, I will say it was remarkable thats why they could survive for so long in India. How Britishers treated Indians I am not talking about, I am saying it only in Army perspective.

I will request please dont sow the seeds of hatred in the Defence forces which as of today is untouched from these things.

The kind of material i read here was something which Pakistan Intelligence use in the Propaganda during hostilities. Every now and then those agency keep on saying that the Forces moral is low, they are killing each other, officers care not about their troops, Indian govt doesnt care about Indian army so on and so forth.

 

[vinoddhatrawal]

Disillusioned Military

Dear Jatlanders,
Has anyone bothered about the degradation of PBORs gradually by 4th, 5th and 6th PCs? Spare little time and have a glance at just one rank Sgt/Hav/Petty Offr. How the Ser Chiefs can blindly state to the media that PBORs are fully satisfied. The Service Officers want to be equal with the IAS/IPS but don't want their subordinates to be equal even to LDC/UDC/Assts/Supdts. I think they all have forgotten the oath thay took to keep the interests of their subordinates before their own.

Further, Sachin ji, relationship between Offr-Jawan is unfortunately not so good today. Let us not discuss that on this plateform. I have rendered 20 yrs of service in the IAF, hence know a lot about the services.

Finally, nothing personal against anyone, we are Jats and we should discuss each and everything affecting us.

VINOD

 

[sachinb]

Good you have served IAF for 20 years, bhai ji hum to Fauz ke dhore ke bhi nahi likad rhe kade,,,,,,,

The Officers-Jawans relations are still good and they can be made better also,,,,,,Chiefs are raising the issue of the retirement benifits for the PBORs also,,,,

Why the parity issues were not raised by earlier chiefs is the reason i have been trying to say till now,,,,,gentleman, all these appointments of Chiefs are done by our political system, if right people are made chiefs like Gen. Kariappa, Maneksha etc then you can see the different results also, those generals had guts to speak their mind infront of politicians,,

mera siraf yahi kahna hai ki kam se kam ek cheej jo ki officers-jawans relations hai vo to bana rahe, baaki to sab ram bharose hai

Now you can keep on blaming Chiefs after all who made them, its our political system,,,,

What will be worse, it need no elaboration, do you know who all attended the funeral of Field Marshal Maneksha, you will get answer your self

main to kahta hun ki aapne 20 saal service ki hai isliye aap jaise log aage aayen aur public oppiniion gather karen

Dear Jatlanders,
Has anyone bothered about the degradation of PBORs gradually by 4th, 5th and 6th PCs? Spare little time and have a glance at just one rank Sgt/Hav/Petty Offr. How the Ser Chiefs can blindly state to the media that PBORs are fully satisfied. The Service Officers want to be equal with the IAS/IPS but don't want their subordinates to be equal even to LDC/UDC/Assts/Supdts. I think they all have forgotten the oath thay took to keep the interests of their subordinates before their own.

Further, Sachin ji, relationship between Offr-Jawan is unfortunately not so good today. Let us not discuss that on this plateform. I have rendered 20 yrs of service in the IAF, hence know a lot about the services.

Finally, nothing personal against anyone, we are Jats and we should discuss each and everything affecting us.

VINOD

 

[sachinb]

Thank you Bhai Ji,

Ek thread jo close ho gaya,,,,usme aapke saath thodi misunderstanding ho gayi thi us galti ke liye Maafi chaahta hun,,,,,,
actually main usi thread mein maafi maangna chaahta tha lekin pata nahi vo khul hi nahi raha tha,,,,,baad mein pata chala ki Lock ho gaya hai,,

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25694&page=3

Sachin, commendable reply that makes lotta sense !!

 

[fateh]

My dear VK Dhatrawal, I appreciate your concern for other ranks in defence services. I also agree with you that relations between officers & jawans are not as good as it used to be in the past. From your feelings I can make out that during your service in Air Force you might have served with substandrad officers. But brother, you will agree that relation is two way traffic & for good/bad relations, one side cannot be blamed & the responsibility has to be shared by both less/more. rest in next post because somebody has come to house & i have to stop now, sorry for intreption.

 

[cooljat]

Bhai Sachin,

Its OK !, It was mistaken by you but not intentional , so I also didnt take this on heart that day !!


Cheers !! ..

Thank you Bhai Ji,

Ek thread jo close ho gaya,,,,usme aapke saath thodi misunderstanding ho gayi thi us galti ke liye Maafi chaahta hun,,,,,,
actually main usi thread mein maafi maangna chaahta tha lekin pata nahi vo khul hi nahi raha tha,,,,,baad mein pata chala ki Lock ho gaya hai,,

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25694&page=3

 

[devdahiya]

My dear VK Dhatrawal, I appreciate your concern for other ranks in defence services. I also agree with you that relations between officers & jawans are not as good as it used to be in the past. From your feelings I can make out that during your service in Air Force you might have served with substandrad officers. But brother, you will agree that relation is two way traffic & for good/bad relations, one side cannot be blamed & the responsibility has to be shared by both less/more. rest in next post because somebody has come to house & i have to stop now, sorry for intreption.

Absolutely....sympathy for lower ranks is one thing...malice for officers is another one........I loved my jawans always and did any thing and every thing for their good and still do...and so do most of the officers...specially for jat officers i can vouch.The thoughts of some people are in very bad taste and really sickening.

 

[fateh]

Secondly, my dear brother VKD, you have sereved in Air Force which is not even 10% of Defence services, also I am sure you might have sereved under only 5% strength of officers in Air Force. There fore, blaming all Defence officers for bad relationship with troops, is niether justified nor correct. Also it is not at all proper to mixup personal feelings & malice with such discussions & at such a forum,it is absolutely uncalled/unwanted. Atlist in Army, the welfare, safty, interest & honour of jawans comes just after the Nation. Fronkly speaking there is no welfare for officers. Ofcource, there is down trend in soldierly qualities among officers but jawans are effected equaly. Thirdly, jat officers are welknown for looking after their subordinates & nobody else has acess to this forum, there fore why to waste time & energy here. My dear brother it is only the Defence service, where majority of officers sacrifice their carear & even life for their jawans/subordinates. The situation in Defence services is still much batter in comperison to any other service as for as relationship with subordinates goes. The toppic of discussion is pay & status of defence personnel(all ranks), where is the requirement of bringing the relationship with jawans in the discussion. Who says that points in the interest of jawans are not raised with the govt. The fact is that their interest is taken care at the eariest at all levels. People may consider Defence personnel as less intelligent, uneducated & incapable but I must remined that ultimate power/strength, the confidence & the last hope of any Nation lies with Defence services. One of our brother has very poor opinion about the compitence of Defence officers which he has formed based on his few relations being in Defence. Such baseless opinions must be avoided & need no attention. My dear young man, the truth is that majority of Defence officers are equaly intelligent (may not be canning), on ground & practically they are more capable than your respected BABUS. Lt col & majors are the real working hands & responsibility of Lt cols has increased many fold now in these days. In the end I would like to request all my brothers to avoide expressing such views which may effect the unity & discipline in the Defence services. Please pardon me for fronk expression, I mean no disrespect to any one. Jai Jawan, Jat Balwan.

 

[ssgoyat]

Secondly, my dear brother VKD, you have sereved in Air Force which is not even 10% of Defence services, also I am sure you might have sereved under only 5% strength of officers in Air Force. There fore, blaming all Defence officers for bad relationship with troops, is niether justified nor correct. Also it is not at all proper to mixup personal feelings & malice with such discussions & at such a forum,it is absolutely uncalled/unwanted. Atlist in Army, the welfare, safty, interest & honour of jawans comes just after the Nation. Fronkly speaking there is no welfare for officers. Ofcource, there is down trend in soldierly qualities among officers but jawans are effected equaly. Thirdly, jat officers are welknown for looking after their subordinates & nobody (only officers, no jawans) else has acess to this forum, there fore why to waste time & energy here. My dear brother it is only the Defence service, where majority of officers sacrifice their carear & even life for their jawans/subordinates. The situation in Defence services is still much batter in comperison to any other service as for as relationship with subordinates goes. The toppic of discussion is pay & status of defence personnel(all ranks), where is the requirement of bringing the relationship with jawans in the discussion. Who says that points in the interest of jawans are not raised with the govt. The fact is that their interest is taken care at the eariest at all levels. People may consider Defence personnel as less intelligent, uneducated & incapable but I must remined that ultimate power/strength, the confidence & the last hope of any Nation lies with Defence services. One of our brother has very poor opinion about the compitence of Defence officers which he has formed based on his few relations being in Defence. Such baseless opinions talks must be avoided & need no attention. My dear young man, the truth is that majority of Defence officers are equaly intelligent (may not be canning), on ground & practically they are more capable than your respected BABUS. Lt col & majors are the real working hands & responsibility of Lt cols has increased many fold now in these days. In the end I would like to request all my brothers to avoide expressing such views which may effect the unity & discipline in the Defence services. Please pardon me for fronk expression, I mean no disrespect to any one. Jai Jawan, Jat Balwan.

Agreed........

 

[sampuran]

The Real Issues

This is an interesting thread. Its ramifications are far far reaching than most members have been able to comprehend.

Unfortunately, like most discussions amongst Jats, this too went off on an undesirable and uselless course. Ant then ppl resort to empty rhetoric rather than debate on substance.

This is one habit (nature) Jats can do without!

One would have wished the Faujis to be more articulate and incisive in their arguments. May be, they, including their Chiefs, don't realise what makes an impact on us, civillians.

So friends here is a forceful and fortright write up by somebody who's unlike a fauji. But this by far is the best article on the subject. And it answers may trivial issues that some learned members have raised about the defence forces.

"We need a permanent solution to this tussle over emoluments" so that the armed forces need only confront the enemies of the nation, says T.R.Ramaswami who is a former banker who was with the SBI Group and DSP Merrill Lynch Ltd.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?p=562182