For Pseudo-Secular Hindus and Modi baiters

swaich said:
Pakistan may not be a safe place for minorities but we are no heaven either. We have a long way to go before we can lose prejudices in state institutions, political groups and common people against minorities. We have an inclination to jump into mindless communal violence every few years with after effects that linger on for decades. This situation is made worse by our collective amnesia.


P.S. For true patriots aka Hindu nationalists, minorities above can mean all groups who are lesser in number than the majority religious group. Yes, that means Hindus in Muslim, Sikh, Christian majority areas.
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swaich bhai we are no heaven either for minorities........ i also know.....but what we majority have faced from our minority side no other majority would have left a single minority alive.........

you know how Hindus were selectively killed by militants in Punjab in trains and buses.......

my father was in KHUMB MELA in 1992 duty in haridwar Sikh terrorist attacked bus in roorkee and killed 21 Hindus on last day of khumb mela.......no reaction was their even after the fact that almost crore Hindus were their in haridwar that last day of khumb

my uncle`s police jeep was blown by sikh militants in sharanpur he was lucky he lost all finger of one foot......even klashnikos rifle were shattered into pieces........door of jeep was hanging on the tree .........

when i used to study in boarding in nainital my family`s car was chased by militants when they were returning after dropping me........

i have seen my jat sikh friends carrying photos of bhindarwala and sikh militants in their phone and laptop and glorifying them.......

have few more personell examples will give you at another time........

we visited HARMINDER SAHIB in 2010.....most of hindu jats must have visited that place .......i saw pictures of bhindarwala at many places in the temple complex......

we have seen sikhs giving siropa to terrorist,we have seen sikhs declaring bhindarwala saint........then also we respect sikhism.....we respect sikhs .....we treat them as brothers........i have big picture of golden temple in my house.......

this is what majority in India is like...........any other example in the world?????????????
please name the country which is heaven for minorities in the world??????

recently Sikh man was attacked in Britain ........i called tv channel which was running a live programme and spoke against any racism against any Indian any where in the world.......
yet another Sikh professor was attacked in USA and iam very concerned.........
 
shekharjat said:
swaich bhai we are no heaven either for minorities........ i also know.....but what we majority have faced from our minority side no other majority would have left a single minority alive.........

you know how Hindus were selectively killed by militants in Punjab in trains and buses.......

my father was in KHUMB MELA in 1992 duty in haridwar Sikh terrorist attacked bus in roorkee and killed 21 Hindus on last day of khumb mela.......no reaction was their even after the fact that almost crore Hindus were their in haridwar that last day of khumb

my uncle`s police jeep was blown by sikh militants in sharanpur he was lucky he lost all finger of one foot......even klashnikos rifle were shattered into pieces........door of jeep was hanging on the tree .........

when i used to study in boarding in nainital my family`s car was chased by militants when they were returning after dropping me........

i have seen my jat sikh friends carrying photos of bhindarwala and sikh militants in their phone and laptop and glorifying them.......

have few more personell examples will give you at another time........

we visited HARMINDER SAHIB in 2010.....most of hindu jats must have visited that place .......i saw pictures of bhindarwala at many places in the temple complex......

we have seen sikhs giving siropa to terrorist,we have seen sikhs declaring bhindarwala saint........then also we respect sikhism.....we respect sikhs .....we treat them as brothers........i have big picture of golden temple in my house.......

this is what majority in India is like...........any other example in the world?????????????
please name the country which is heaven for minorities in the world??????

recently Sikh man was attacked in Britain ........i called tv channel which was running a live programme and spoke against any racism against any Indian any where in the world.......
yet another Sikh professor was attacked in USA and iam very concerned.........
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Shekhar bhai,

Let me say I feel incidents of Sikh militants targeting Hindus especially traders in Punjab and elsewhere are a blot on the community. I think those Sikh militants were doing no favor do their cause or their faith by targeting innocents.

But here's my point - if you are telling me that the majority community (Hindus in this case) did a favor to the minorities by not taking revenge, than I disagree with you.
 
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swaich said:
Let me say first hand I do not condone law against apostasy. One should be free to leave and choose any religion when he/she pleases.
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That's good... then don't ever say again that listed Islamic countries provides freedom of religion and there is no persecution of minorities and there is no Islamic supermacy.

swaich said:
Now, for the umpteenth time, let me elucidate my argument again as you are going to go around in circles-

Bad deeds of followers, nations (with justification from holy books) /= Bad religion
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Don't argue for the sake of argument & tell us why we should not condemn these countries and their laws. You are free to think whatever. I told you about anti-humanity laws violating basic tenants of human rights .Here I provided you a list of 15-20 Islamic nations almost all on this globe. Don't you know these laws are based on Islamic scriptures ? Don't you know that so called wrong interpretors (Terrorists ) are also from these countries ? Do you think the people living there , govt. , police , all machinery wrongly interprets their religion ?it's you who is going around circles and not coming with facts, and the centrifugal point of ur circle is an universal apologist line "Bad deeds & wrong interpretation of some followers bla bla bla "
 
RathiJi said:
That's good... then don't ever say again that listed Islamic countries provides freedom of religion and there is no persecution of minorities and there is no Islamic supermacy.
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Did I say all of those things?

Don't argue for the sake of argument & tell us why we should not condemn these countries and their laws. You are free to think whatever. I told you about anti-humanity laws violating basic tenants of human rights .Here I provided you a list of 15-20 Islamic nations almost all on this globe. Don't you know these laws are based on Islamic scriptures ? Don't you know that so called wrong interpretors (Terrorists ) are also from these countries ? Do you think the people living there , govt. , police , all machinery wrongly interprets their religion ?it's you who is going around circles and not coming with facts, and the centrifugal point of ur circle is an universal apologist line "Bad deeds & wrong interpretation of some followers bla bla bla "
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Simply because there are good deeds too. You mean to say Muslims only do evil?
 
swaich said:
Did I say all of those things?
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Well... leave the history. I think in future you will not say so on Jatland that in Islamic countries there is freedom of religion.



swaich said:
Simply because there are good deeds too. You mean to say Muslims only do evil?
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How many of them you know possessing good deeds, Approximately ? I also know few of them APJ Kalam, Mustafa Kamal Ataturk, Abdul Hamid etc. You can tell your list.

Earlier , I gave you example of a modern, progressive, secular predominantly muslim state, i.e, Turkey , Ataturk was founder of that nation. you know what he said about the religion u defending ?

"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories [regarding civil and criminal law] of an Arab Shaikh and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. This theology of an immoral Arab [presented as Islam] is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in the desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation! There is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No weaklings should rule!"
 
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RathiJi said:
Well... leave the history. I think in future you will not say so on Jatland that in Islamic countries there is freedom of religion.
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Get off your pedestal.

How many of them you know possessing good deeds, Approximately ? I also know few of them APJ Kalam, Mustafa Kamal Ataturk, Abdul Hamid etc. You can tell your list.
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Every Muslim working a 9 to 7 job, feeding his family and leading a normal citizen's life. There are too many of such to count. And yes, I believe they outnumber the terrorists, religious nuts and hatemongers.

arlier , I gave you example of a modern, progressive, secular predominantly muslim state, i.e, Turkey , Ataturk was founder of that nation. you know what he said about the religion u defending ?

"For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories [regarding civil and criminal law] of an Arab Shaikh and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. This theology of an immoral Arab [presented as Islam] is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in the desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation! There is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weaklings. No weaklings should rule!"
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Love that man, Attaturk. Only if other heads of Muslim states had the sense to put modernity into a higher plane than religion and separate religion from state.

Btw, isn't he talking about interpretations too? Read his comments again! Their crux is that the Turks shouldn't tie themselves to the self serving interpretations of the priests.
 
swaich said:
Every Muslim working a 9 to 7 job, feeding his family and leading a normal citizen's life. There are too many of such to count. And yes, I believe they outnumber the terrorists, religious nuts and hatemongers.
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Agreed. Any thoughts on "Number of Terrorists/ million Population" according to religious belief? It might be interesting to find out who leads and by how much.

RK^2
 
rkumar said:
Agreed. Any thoughts on "Number of Terrorists/ million Population" according to religious belief? It might be interesting to find out who leads and by how much.

RK^2
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That's the million dollar question.

But before we go into that ratio, we have to define "a terrorist" first. Any common standards of definitions there?
 
swaich said:
Get off your pedestal.
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Sure if you prove me wrong in the above point regarding Islamic countries.

swaich said:
Every Muslim working a 9 to 7 job, feeding his family and leading a normal citizen's life. There are too many of such to count. And yes, I believe they outnumber the terrorists, religious nuts and hatemongers.
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It means terrorist, religious nuts & hatemongers have outnumbered normal 9 to 7 muslims in all these Islamic nations ? That's why state which represents entire population forces such laws on minority and do the persecution. Anyways , there are some questions you can ask normal, peace loving muslims ? Like for example,

Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu, Idol worshipper), Nelson Mandela(Methodist), Mother Teresa ( Roman Catholic) , Swami Vivekanand ( vedanta), Martin Luther King ( Baptist ) all worked throughout their life for human rights and good deeds. But they were not muslims n didn't believe in Islamic god, prophet & scriptures. So ask them where they will go acc to Islam and it scriptures not by human values ? Hell or heaven ? you will get the answer and the root of problem.

swaich said:
Love that man, Attaturk. Only if other heads of Muslim states had the sense to put modernity into a higher plane than religion and separate religion from state.

Btw, isn't he talking about interpretations too? Read his comments again! Their crux is that the Turks shouldn't tie themselves to the self serving interpretations of the priests.
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Finally, you agree that other muslim states as i mentioned have done a poisonous mixing of religion ( ISLAM not any other) with state ? They persecute and disrespect other religions in their state and globally by Jihad & funding.

You are right Mustafa was talking about interpretation and that is the only interpretation of almost all muslim scholars no wrong no right. If you don't agree with him tell me if there is any other interpretation. You know like many other muslim countries Indian muslims (all of them) follow the same civil rules of Immoral Arabs as he quoted.Do you know Turkey treats polygamy under criminal law ? Do you know Pakistan a theocratic muslim state shares the same history with India ? Do you know Maharaja Ranjeet Singh (Sikh) ruled Lahore and most of northern Pakistan even some portions of Afghanistan. Do you have any text book glorifying him there ? Do you know abt roads & monuments commisioned on his name ?

I can show you the roads and chapters on most cruel muslim ruler in India ,i.e, Aurangzeb. Who butchered Hindus like animals & destroyed places of worship all across India. This is what India is a Hindu majority country. Don't push people to such extent so that they start talking in the same language ? Hinduism in general and Hindus in particular deserve the respect from all sections because of deeds not the supremacy of religion.
 
swaich said:
That's the million dollar question.

But before we go into that ratio, we have to define "a terrorist" first. Any common standards of definitions there?
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Terrorists: A person like Kasab or the likes of 9/11 NY trade tower bombers, London train bombers, like Tunda, or the persons who killed Christians in Peshawar just other day.. I suppose there should not be any objection to agreeing such persons as terrorists?

RK^2
 
rkumar said:
Agreed. Any thoughts on "Number of Terrorists/ million Population" according to religious belief? It might be interesting to find out who leads and by how much.

RK^2
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Everyone here knows who is leading and by how much margin, even Pseudo Seculars who will keep finding escape routes and will never hesitate to put foot in their mouth.
 
And 'by chance or choice' all these terrorists are Muslims from different part of the world !!

rkumar said:
Terrorists: A person like Kasab or the likes of 9/11 NY trade tower bombers, London train bombers, like Tunda, or the persons who killed Christians in Peshawar just other day.. I suppose there should not be any objection to agreeing such persons as terrorists?

RK^2
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It's such a shame these pseudo secular fake intellects declaring everything wrong just to satisfy their false ego.

Anyways, Legha Ji ki koi update nahi hai for quite some time. I wish and hope he and fellow other Jats are safe and sound there in hostile country.

RathiJi said:
Finally, The fairy tales of Pakistan being narrated by some members here are over as we got the first hand report from our own brother.

Bhai, Legha Ji ki koi update hai abhi ? How is he & family ?
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In common man's language, I would say a terrorist is a person who through violence against anyone including innocent people creates terror in the minds and hearts of the general population to achieve his ulterior agenda/motive.

As has been said by VP ji and Shekhar bhai, had the so called minorities indulged in the kind of terror anywhere else in the world as they have in India, they would have been crushed with a heavy hand if not wiped out. Give me one example where this level of terror by the minorities is tolerated in any part of the world?

Terrorism cannot survive WITHOUT local support from the community. So, I would differ with the statement that most of the people from this community are peace-loving. Without funding and other social and logistical support terrorists and terrorism would not survive. We all know how the funds and contributions for terrorism come including from the so-called educated and high-heeled people of the community. It is not for nothing that for them religion is above anything else, even above life and dignity of life.


swaich said:
That's the million dollar question.

But before we go into that ratio, we have to define "a terrorist" first. Any common standards of definitions there?
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rkumar said:
Terrorists: A person like Kasab or the likes of 9/11 NY trade tower bombers, London train bombers, like Tunda, or the persons who killed Christians in Peshawar just other day.. I suppose there should not be any objection to agreeing such persons as terrorists?

RK^2
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Agreed. But shouldn't we define it first? Are only bombings and assassinations termed as acts of terrorism or other forms of violence too?

Terrorists are only the executors. What about instigators, organizers?
 
rkumar said:
Terrorists: A person like Kasab or the likes of 9/11 NY trade tower bombers, London train bombers, like Tunda, or the persons who killed Christians in Peshawar just other day.. I suppose there should not be any objection to agreeing such persons as terrorists?

RK^2
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RK ji, naxalites also come in this category?
 
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