GOD! Are you there?

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Dear Sheorayan Ji,

I want to tell you that the topic we are discussing is the most favourite for me. It is not simply that I want to oppose what others say in this regard, but because I have been curious enough. The level of my curiosity can be statistically defined by the fact that more than one third of my postings on the site are on this topic only.

Anyway coming back to the topic, I never had the doubt on myself, but the reason I don't believe in the God is simply due to the fact that nothing has been able to convince me of His presence.

Nextly, I am not a perfectionist. Niether it is that I have always been right. What I wanted to say that I do not do things because I fear from anybody, but I do things as per my conscience. It maybe sometimes it may be wrong as well.

I also have no intension in doing anything for some reward. I would like, and surely will, do things only because they give me satisfaction of doing. If I help somebody, my intesion has never been that God will someday reward me for that, or in my next birth, I do so because it gives me satisfaction of doing it. And if I expect anything it is that the man I have helped will help somebody in turn if the need be.

Again I ask you if God is one, how come this concept of the favourite Gods. It means you think that people from other communities and religion have nothing to do with the spirituality! Or else these Gods discriminate your community from others! Strange on parts of Gods. When I'll talk to a brahmin he'll say he is the closest to God, because he has been making efforts to enlive Him for centuries. I f a mandir is made in Ayodhya, the people belonging to VHP will become pet of the God.

How come the Brahmins misused your faith in God, they have made the efforts only to increase your faith in God. If you believe that God exists, I think they have done well, else God will punish them, why you do bother?

And when I say that there is one and only one supreme power in the world called Nature, how come it is wrong, when it neither discreminates on any basis, nor we have to argue about its existence???

your turn!!!
 
Dear Jitu,

Thanks for your frank posting. If you would like to maintain that nature is the supereme power in itself and there is nothing higher than nature. When we call some thing supreme it must be beyond improvement i.e. must be perfect and never changing. Does it hold true for nature. It does evolve and people around the globe believe that it needs protection from human beings. It still does not explain the highest truth which once established should leave no room for improvement. That can only apply to God who is beyond all adjectives and superlatives.

It is ignorance due to which Brahmins have been able to exploit uneducated masses. Various religions try and prove the superiority of their own religion over others which is natural because that improves their self esteem. Favourite Gods and rituals are to help simple people establish their faith in some thing superior to their own self. It is just a tool which could and have been misused time and again. For those who have acquired true knowledge about self and God the rituals are unnecessary. Like any other ritual there are two aspects of prayer one is physical and other spiritual. Places of worship can only help with physical part but spirituality has to come from within the individual which can also happen at any other spot out side the place of worship.
 
Dear Jitender Singh:

I am very glad to see this humane side of you through post # 61. To me, this is by far the best of all the earlier messages you have written. I am very happy for you. So, you are a believer in fact.

“...that I do not do things because I fear from anybody, but I do things as per my conscience.” - is a high moral. You believe in your conscience while doing things - this is spirituality.

“...also have no intension in doing anything for some reward. I would like, and surely will, do things only because they give me satisfaction of doing....And if I expect anything it is that the man I have helped will help somebody in turn if the need be.” Well, well, well - watch out here. You are going after the highest reward of all rewards. A personal satisfaction which leads to peace, and an expectation of others to do good simply because you did some good to them!

“...Again I ask you if God is one, how come this concept of the favourite Gods. It means you think that people from other communities and religion have nothing to do with the spirituality!” Very good - this is THE problem. Christians have their God, Muslims have their own, Hindus have many of them. This is what has brought so much friction and pain in the world.

“And when I say that there is one and only one supreme power in the world called Nature..” So, you do believe in Supreme power and you call it Nature. A good believer.

Shubha Chand Sheorayan Ji writes “We are free to do what we please but are not free to accept or reject the effect of our actions. That is the theory of Karma in it's simplest form.” To me, this is the essence of spirituality. We can’t escape our Karma. This led me to write and follow # 1 in my post # 49. I am believer. I believe in a Supreme power as I can’t find explanations for many things that happen in life. I call it God. I could easily call Him something else if the word God is being misused. I don’t search for Him in any building or in different forms. I don’t jump up or down to please Him. I don’t fast or light candles to please Him. He is in my conscience. This is why I wrote that Love of Humanity is the best religion. I read commentary of Vedas and that strengthens my spirituality.
Finally, dear Jitender Singh, from your current post I infer that you are a believer in more Godly sense than many who enchant slogans and don’t appeal to their conscience while operating in life. They are the ones who are lost - and they may not realize it.
 
A great discussion, but don't you think we are in a viscious circle here. We are here to discuss
GOD. Some of us says its matter of faith whether to accept or not. But if one does not have faith in God, one can't challenge His existence.

to define Faith and God, lets' have a story:

"Once there were two friends, one the believer, and the other had no faith in existence of God. They were always discussing the topic with each others with new arguments every time. On a evening they discussed the topic curiously. But both of them were firm on their stands. On the very next morning, they wake up with reversed faith. Former is non-believer and believer the latter."

It generally happens in our surrounding.

But,sages says that one can't make the other to believe in God. Its a long self-motivated process in which one has to critically examine with all the facts, with truth in his mind, for ages. In this birth then next and next.......
Then it may happen(based on one knowledge, action and prayer) that one become believer or not.
 
Dear Sheorayan Ji,

Do you think that you know the Nature completely. Atleast I have failed in doing so. I am really wanting situation on this issue. But whenever I have indulged with a doubt in my life, I have been able to resolve or reason it on the basis of its functioning. That has been the main reason of my faith with it rather than Godly concepts, which have over and again created doubts in my mind.

I don't agree to your argument in the next para either that:
"Various religions try and prove the superiority of their own religion over others which is natural because that improves their self esteem"
If you are voilating your own religion to prove its superiority, how come you call it religion!
 
Dear Budh Ji,

Thanks for the analysis of my posting. It is always nice to have a person like you who can summarize the things as you also did in your earlier posting#49.

I have no objections calling me a believer, spiritual or anything else. Niether I am here to promote my ideas. My main idea has been to share my thought with all you people and get something for me out of it.

If you believe that doing things as per the conscience is spirituality, it's okay! From where does my conscience came, from my surroundings. Had I been brought up in different environment, I don't think it is mendatory that I would have the same conscience. That's why I owe a lot to people around me for what I have been right now!

Another obvious argument is: "Why do people run after spirituality? - just for the sake of peace."
If my attitude in life wins me peace out of it, why should I care for the spirituality?

The problem of many Gods is really THE problem, and it has brought the world under threat. It is something what all the followers, believers and non-believers of these Gods must look into.

Finally, my favourite quote for my ambition in life, which I used to quote in my schoolhood essays,
"Be what you like yourself want to be, otherwise you will have to be what others want you to be."
 
Dear community Members,
I liked the spirit of discussion much more than the real discussion. I would like to thank every participant for their contribution and specially Mr. Jitendra, without his share we were unable to reach so far.
To me, he is 'Karm yogi' on the right path. His karma will leads him to self realization the same way Gyan n Dhyan does. Once he realize him self (Aatma) is not far from God (Parm aatma) .
 
Folks,

Thanks for keeping up the spirit of the discussion. Many of us are already in a voilent agreement. We agree that it is the faith. Some of us can call it belief, imagination or fear of unknown. For them the question becomes - is it good to have such blind faith?

Others have argued that it is a _fact_ that God exists. I have to respectfully disagree. If it is a fact then how come so many people have mis-understood such a fact that it has led to such a situation all around the world. Also, I see lot of disagreement in the believers of God and lot of inconsistency in ones belief of God. Some argue that God is everywhere and God plays a role (or watching) each and every action of ours. Others argue that God doesn't micro-manage and only look at the results of our actions. Others believe that God only plays a role on re-birth in deciding what should you become based on what you have done throughout your life. There are also beliefs that only humans are entitled to God because only humans can think and communicate when we all know that almost all animals can think and communicate otherwise how would they survive. Yes, one thing I am willing to accept is that maybe animals can't imagine otherwise they would also be fighting in the name of God today.

Such disagreement among the believers itself indicates that atleast it is not a _fact_ that God exists. Atleast it has not been proven to be a fact. Because once it becomes a fact there won't be such mass disagreement. Now you might just tell me that it is a fact, it just hasn't been proven yet. Well, I will believe it to be fact when it becomes a fact then.

I would like to add that I am thankful for our culture and values that I am free to express my views openly today. There are places and communities in the world I wouldn't dare to say a thing like that. I would also say that the time has come to open your mind question the status quo. If you just leave everything off to God, you wouldn't even attempt to search for so many answers. Start taking responsibilities.

Finally, I am not spreading a message here but you don't have to believe in God to live a honest and good life.

Thanks for reading.

-ajmer
 
Dear Ajmer:

I think it is a proper thing to exercise discernment while discussing a sensitive issue like faith. One should not take a broom and sweep all believers alike.

If you read even parts of Swami Vivekananda's collected works, you will realize that his faith was logical and far away from a blind faith. He was a scholar in the truest sense and a Karma-Yogi. There are others as well who are Karma-Yogis.

A faith becomes a blind faith when actions follow no logic; and personal greed, personal convenience, ignorance, intolerance and selfrighteousness become the driving force behind that faith. With this premise, not every believer has blind faith; however there are many who fall in that category.

As you sow, so shall you reap. Everybody will be responsible for his/her actions. There is no escaping.

Believing in God/Nature/Super Power does not mean you leave everything off to them and you sit down. No one ever narrated that.

One should be a Karma-Yogi and all else will be taken care. One doesn't have to worry the whereabouts of God or any other Power. It is in your conscience once you are a Karma-Yogi.

Ajmer Singh Dahiya (Nov 06, 2003 04:34 p.m.):
Folks,

Thanks for keeping up the spirit of the discussion. Many of us are already in a voilent agreement. We agree that it is the faith. Some of us can call it belief, imagination or fear of unknown. For them the question becomes - is it good to have such blind faith?
Click to expand...
 
Hi Everybody,

I think everybody have their own idea about faith in God.And somebody are agreed and some are not .Now I think we should stop discussion on this topic because may be too long discussion will creat some misunderstanding between members.Everybody have their own way of thinking and experiences.

The following are few Quote regarding Religion about other countries great peoples including scientists based on Religion or God

/*************

I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls.

- Albert Einstein

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

- Albert Einstein

lord, give me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change, courage to change the things i can, and wisdom to know the difference

- Anonymous

I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it.

- Benjamin Franklin


God favors no group. Only religions do that.

- Bumper Sticker

I believe in God like I believe in the sun rise. Not because I can see it, but because I can see all that it touches.

- C.S. Lewis

We regard God as an airman regards his parachute; it's there for emergencies but he hopes he'll never have to use it.

- C.S. Lewis

A God. The God. One word can make all the difference in the world.

- C.S. Lewis

Now that I am a Christian I do not have moods in which the whole thing looks very improbable: but when I was an atheist I had moods in which Christianity looked terribly probable.

- C.S. Lewis


Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

- Chapman Cohen

For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.

- Charles Bukowski

I can indeed hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true, for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine.

- Charles Darwin

If we accept that there is neither a heaven or a hell, we renounce the idea of any power beyond the perception of science we then must accept responsibility for all we do in this life for there will be no form of atonement afterwards.

- Dominic Webb

"Fantastic doctrines (like Christianity or Islam or Marxism) require unanimity of belief. One dissenter casts doubt on the creed of millions. Thus the fear and the hate; thus the torture chamber, the iron stake, the gallows, the labor camp, the psychiatric ward.

- Edward Abbey

God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere.

- Empedocles

The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church.

- Ferdinand Magellan

Do you believe that at the heart of the universe there is a room? Or do you believe that there is no heart to the universe, just down, down, and that the dark crow that rows back through the air marks us all for its own and darkness's?

- Frederick Buechner

I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, the one great instinct for revenge for which no expedient is sufficiently poisonous, secret, subterranean, petty -- I call it the one mortal blemish of mankind.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

- Galileo Galilei

When are we human beings gonna have a meeting? We took this god thing and ran to the god damn end of the earth with it.

- George Carlin

Many people genuinely do not wish to be saints, and it is possible that some who achieve or aspire to sainthood have never had much temptation to be human beings.

- George Orwell

God does not play dice with the universe: He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with balcnk cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time. * i.e., everbody.

- Good Omens By Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett

Life is an unfoldment, and the further we travel the more truth we can comprehend. To understand the things that are at our door is the best preparation for understanding those that lie beyond

- Hypatia

If God dwells inside us like some people say....I sure hope he likes enchiladas, cuz thats what he's getting.

- Jack Handey

God is a shout in the street.

- James Joyce

God Gave us our memories so that we might have roses in December.

- James Matthew Barrie

1 In the beggining Man created God: and in the image of Man created he him. 2 And Man gave unto God a multitude of names, that he might be Lord over all the earth when it was suited to Man. 3 And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean heavily on his God and saw that it was good. 4 And Man formed Aqualung of the dust of the ground, and a host of others likened unto his kind. 5 And these lesser men Man did cast into the void. And some were burned; and some were put apart from their kind. 6 And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did rule over all the earth. 7 But as these things did come to pass, the Spirit that did cause man to creat his God lived on within all men: even within Aqualung 8 And Man saw it not. 9 But for Christ's sake he'd better start looking.

- Jethro Tull

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who soever beliveth in his shall not parish, but have everlasting life...

- John 3:16

If a `religion' is defined to be a system of ideas that contains unprovable statements, then Godel taught us that mathematics is not only a religion, it is the only religion that can prove itself to be one.

- John Barrow

Anyone who cannot understand how a useful religion can be based on lies will not understand this book either.

- Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"

Every day, people are straying away from the church and going back to God.

- Lenny Bruce

I have never seen Athieism dry the tears of a widowed bride. I have never seen Athieiesm comfort the single mother. I have never seen Athieism calm the spirit of a distressed father. And I have never seen Athieism offer hope to the hopeless, forgiveness to the sinner, and grace and mercy to all who ask it. Athieism indeed denies humans of the one thing our souls so long for; an answer. I have found the answer! The One and Only Answer.

- Logan McAdams

Believe it or not, Evolution Creation, Communism, Anarchism All isms are all religions. Perfect Neutrality of Religions is impossible.

- Lyden

...as hollow as the "o" in god...

- Marilyn Manson

"God gives gifts to all creatures," Allessandro continued," no matter what their station or condition. He may give innocence to a lunatic, or heaven to a thief. Contrary to most theologians, I have always believed that even worms and weasels have souls, and that even they are capable of salvation."

- Mark Helprin, "A Soldier of the Great War"

Most people are bothered by those passages in Scripture which they cannot understand; but as for me, I always notice that the passages in Scripture which trouble me most are those which I do understand.

- Mark Twain

Sacrecd cows make the best hamburger.

- Mark Twain

The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind

- Marquis de Sade

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men.

- Martin Luther King Jr.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."

- Napoleon

Religion is the fashionable substitute for belief.

- Oscar Wilde

God is really only another artist. He invented the giraffe, the elephant, and the cat. He has no real style. He just keeps on trying other things.

- Pablo Picasso

Divine Goodness does not only NOT reject penitent souls, but goes out in search of obstinate souls.

- Padre Pio

I can't say I believe in god. If, in fact, I ever find out that he does indeed exist, I think I'll stay away from him, because if he's responsible for half the things he gets credit for, he's got to be one mean son of a bitch.

- Peter Gethers

Soon the child’s clear eye is clouded over by ideas and opinions, preconceptions and abstractions. Simple free being becomes encrusted with the burdensome armor of the ego. Not until years later does an instinct come that a vital sense of mystery has been withdrawn. The sun glints through the pines, and the heart is pierced in a moment of beauty and strange pain, like a memory of paradise. After that day… we become seekers.

- Peter Matthiessen

All that I have seen teaches me to trust the creator in all that I have not seen

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

I consider dogmatic belief and dogmatic denial very childish forms of conceit in a world of infinitely whirrling complexity.

- Robert Anton Wilson

I want no heaven for which I must give my reason; no happiness in exchange for my liberty, and no immortality that demands the surrender of my individuality. Better rot in the windowless tomb, to which there is no door but the red mouth of the pallid worm, than to wear the jeweled collar of a god.

- Robert Green Ingersoll

It is like most other ancient books – a mingling of falsehood and truth, of philosophy and folly – all written by men, and most of the men only partially civilized. Some of its laws are good – some infinitely barbarous. None of the miracles related were performed. . . . Take out the absurdities, the miracles, all that pertains to the supernatural – all the cruel and barbaric laws – and to the remainder I have no objection. Neither would I have for it any great admiration.

- Robert Ingersoll

Doing My Part To Piss Off The Religous Reich

- Seen On A Button

Screw God, I'm worshipping Jill.

- Shelby

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.

- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Lord, proect me from your followers!

- Some Button I Saw Once

The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window.

- Stephen King

"Now if you send just a dollar or two, there's not a hell of a lot I can do for you. If you want to see heaven's door, make out a check for $500 or more. Send me your money!"

- Suicidal Tendencies

He is Allah, (the) One. The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks. He begets not, nor was He begotten; And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him.

- The Noble Qur'An (112:1-4)

Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever.

- Thomas Jefferson

I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

- Thomas Jefferson

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it as I detest everything that is cruel.

- Thomas Paine

the same people wrote the bible that thought the world was flat.

- Unknown

If God did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent him.

- Voltair
/***************/
 
Dr. Nashier:

I really appreciate your advice but this is one of the problems of this age. Far too many of us have come to be believe that one has to be always "politically correct".

I can tell you that so many of us are not speaking their own conscience just because they might step out of the status quo. I and I am sure you see it everyday in life. I also think that so many people believe in God just because they think that this is the "right" thing to do. Many of them don't look for any logic in their belief.

It is very obvious that we can go on and on discussing this topic. I am doing it because where else can I find such open minded and intellectual people to speak my mind to.

I don't want to name people here because most certainly I may leave some of them out but I have the highest regards for all the people here on this discussion and even more for those more experienced than me because I know I may just learn a few things from them.

Thanks.

-ajmer
 
Dear All,

Probably the most complex armour has been fired by Balraj Bhai. Thanks for giving the most of the headache!

Problem is the reading such one liners are very difficult to get along, as everybody interprets these their own way. Another thing I'd mention is that most of the Godly literature has been contributed and dominated by believers, who never lokked into the matters critically as Bhai Ajmer has stated. Also the world has been dominated by hard liners so much that even a critical thinker like Copernicus was hanged just because of presenting a scientific thought that sun is the centre of the solar system.

Ajmer Bhai, it is very easy to blame others, but very difficult to imrove yourself. And the spirit of the debate is voilated in the blame game. The best way is to put your thoughts up, and try to get what the others want to say. Here no one is going to take your space.

Also, everybody know what they are saying, whether they are right or wrong, and whether what they do is right or wrong. So, this should not be a cause of concern in the debate. If you are convinced of your views, go away with it. But when we are having a discussion whatever other say is as important as whatever we think.

Coming to the discussion, the point you put that-
"Far too many of us have come to be believe that one has to be always "politically correct"."
It is an inherent nature of human that they tend to convince others rather than convince themselves. The day they'll start convincing themselves will be the day when one will get to know the thrue value of the human life.
 
Dear Friends,

As rightly pointed out by many of you this is a very sensitive issue. It is difficult to convince others of existence of God or otherwise.

Let me try to put my thoughts in words and see whether I believe in God or not. It is not easy to answer this Question in the first place. More difficult would be to convince others of His existence or otherwise. By doing so I get one important answer and that is 'Not to impose my belief on others'.

I don't believe that God is a Devi or Devtaa or a superforce that can do what ever has been attributed to Him in the 'Epics' of which ever religion. I also don't believe in stories that have been attributed to Gods. Those I consider to be 'poetic Justice', if at all.

But I do believe in a 'Power'. May be others call this power by names such as Nature, God, Allah, Ram, Christ etc etc. This power is refered to by some as 'Destiny', 'Faith' and 'Karma' as well.

I believe that if I follow some basic principles in life, I shall be on the right side of this 'Power'. These basic principles have been written earlier in my posts and even Budh Bhai Saheb and others have refered to in the present thread.

I think the earliest man on this earth considered a ferocious bird or a large animal or lightening for that matter as God. Some one or thing that was to be feared. May be, and I say this with a lot of care, that is how the image of an Almighty persona came to be attributed with God.

Here is an example. Imagine Donkeys grazing in a jungle. How would the mind of a donkey perceive a super donkey to be? I am sure the donkey will think that a 'Super Donkey' will have two heads, huge eyes and many legs, etc etc. That is exactly how man perceived God to be and so we have our Devi-Devta's with umpteen number of heads and arms. The rest of the stories have been attributed to them by our Brahmin friends and what ever was missing even after that, the modern day God-men/women have monopolised Gods. And since 99% of the people are any thing but honest in their lives, there is a growing need for 'Yatras' and 'Pilgrimages'. SAARE SAAL JHOOTH BOLO, CHHORI KARO, APNO KO PARESHAN KARO AUR EK BAR KAHO 'JAI MATA DI', SAARE PAAP DHUL GYE. No I don't believe in these Gods.

I believe in a conscience that is inside me which tells me exactly and in much advance whether what I am going to do or doing is correct or not. Whatever this is: 'Mann' or 'Antaratma', is my true guide. Call it God, call it nature, how does it matter. If I do Good, Good will come my way. If I help others, others will help me. The key here is ME. I have to make sure that this ME is right. If this ME can be controlled, then you have realised the truth. Give it any name. 'Cause and Effect'!!

I beg apologies if I have confused the already enlightened members of this site.

Allow me to quote one of my grandparents. May be my sisters and daughters on this site would not like the language but then to prove a point I have to be verbatum. During rainy season when we children used to make a lot of noise and disturb the 'Dada', he used to shout. "Re so len dyo chhori C*** kyo. Aik te iss RAM ki issi tissi ho ri hai arr upar te tharii bebe gud ri sai ke". What I am trying to say is that JATS traditionally have never believed in Gods in the manner the pandits would have wanted us to. Our forefathers have always believed in 'Karma'. Do your duty.

Regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)
 
Very true !!

Lt Col Jagmohan Malik (Retd) (Nov 10, 2003 05:04 a.m.):
Dear Friends,
I believe in a conscience that is inside me which tells me exactly and in much advance whether what I am going to do or doing is correct or not. Whatever this is: 'Mann' or 'Antaratma', is my true guide. Call it God, call it nature, how does it matter. If I do Good, Good will come my way. If I help others, others will help me. The key here is ME. I have to make sure that this ME is right. If this ME can be controlled, then you have realised the truth. Give it any name. 'Cause and Effect'!!


Regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)
Click to expand...
 
Hi Everybody,

This topic is going quite complex and confusing now.Everybody have their own views regarding existance of God ,own faith & belief.A few people are telling in way of scientifically and others in spiritual way.

So what is the final conclusion of this discussion on God?

-Balraj Dahiya
 
For the final answer you have to ask yourself. Answer this question who are you ? Just this body or is there some thing more than that. You may not get your answer in one day but sooner or later every one gets his/her answer.
 
discussion abt GOD has been going on for centuries and this forum just proves god willing it will go on for many more centuries.
malika sherawat topic has more postings than this one...draw ur own conclusions.
 
Hi Balraj,

The nature of this topic has brought all of us to this discussion board. Issue itself is very complex. Still the efforts of Budhji in summarizing will be quite benefitial for you if you are not interested in going throught each posting.

For the final conclusion, I may really have varying thoughts from others, but I'll stick to my version. But still I'll be dishonest to myself if I say I have not benefitted from the discussion with the people having thought with contradiction to my views, Discussing with them I was even able to clarify my stance to myself in a more resolute way.

Okay, for me:
1) Nature holds the supreme power! (Some have named this supreme power the name of God, although I still treat it to be a faith of them. Hence, God is a fictitious entity for me atleast.) For me nature holds the supreme designation because, it does not discriminate amongst the entities of the universe, Works according to predefined laws, has been able to reason all the events and happenings.

2) Conscience is built up in the environment you are grown up! Hence, your conscience reflects the environment you are brought up.

3) Do something not for the fear of something, but because it will give you peace of mind. You won't have to run all the way for the search of the peace.

4) Don't convince others with your acts, look for what your conscience says.

5) Don't draw rules for others. Impose them on self only.

6) It is the inner lamp which must be lit up to really light up your life. As you yourself are Computer Engineer, you can get what importance the logic of the program has.

7) Mankind is the ultimate goal of society. If a religion/soceity has principles which voilates the norms of mankind, it should not be accepted.

8) I haven't found any words of hate in any religious book, whether it is for the hindus, muslims, sikhs, christians, or budhdhists. Problem lies with the people who milks the benefits out of the religion.

Again these conventions are not for you these are for me. First convince yourslef whether these are okay for you and then go by them. Take these as mere my summarised results.

Again you are grown up, take out your brains and ask him what is going on here and where you stand.
 
Thanks everybody for lots of nice spiritual and touching information.

I know everybody have their own ways of faith and belief in God.

So thanks a lot again.

-Balraj
 
Look around you and observe things carefully.He[the almighty created water,food grains,fruits,greenary,fellow beings,animals,birds,a unique identity for all of us,beautiful universe with perfact balance.Sun,moon,mountains,air,rains....so on and so forth.How it happened in such a maticulous way? Who made it possible for us....Things don't happen in auto mode.There are feelings,dreams,emotions and what not.I have a strong belief that yes he exists and exists in every living thing.
 
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