India backs IAEA resolution : - New change in Foriegn Policy...

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rkumar said:
1. First of all, the pipeline has never been an Indioan dream. This has been rather Iranian dream and Pakistani dream. Pakistan ears millions of dollars in royality and Iran earns money from gas which otherwise goes into air as waste. Selling gas is not as easy as oil. Just wait and watch..Iran will still sell gas to India as it has no other big buyer. Pakistanis will do their best to see the piple line, else they too loose millions.

2. Whom had we impressed by abstaining? Who would have cared ? India has been voting against USA for 50 years. Has that made India strong or independednt in foeign policy? High time we wake up to world reality. Hope being a man from army you know how Iran supported Pakistan during most of the Indo-Pak wars.

RK^2




Rajendra ji,

We appreciate your concern for towing the right line on India's part but question is WHICH IS THAI SO CALLED SILVER[jaddu ka chiraag] LINE. There are so many other nations and realities other than USA.Who denies the importance of having/not having cordial relations with the PRESENT super power[even if we don't wish to have good relation the fact is that WE BLOODY WELL BOW IN SUBMISSION]. Question is:should we not have cordial relations with other nations like Iran. If Iran sided with Pakistan in past,it was due to the situation on ground that time but Iran never spoiled her relations with India,inspite of that.....[diplomacy I suppose].Let us rise above that short-sighted approach and start taking a balance view, keeoing Future of our GREAT NATION in mind. we tried tow the line with USSR[then super-dooper power]...what happened? We ought to have Short term and long term plannings/goals in toe,as they complement each other. I respect your stand as you are entitled to have it.
 
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rkumar said:
1. First of all, the pipeline has never been an Indioan dream. This has been rather Iranian dream and Pakistani dream. Pakistan ears millions of dollars in royality and Iran earns money from gas which otherwise goes into air as waste. Selling gas is not as easy as oil. Just wait and watch..Iran will still sell gas to India as it has no other big buyer. Pakistanis will do their best to see the piple line, else they too loose millions.

2. Whom had we impressed by abstaining? Who would have cared ? India has been voting against USA for 50 years. Has that made India strong or independednt in foeign policy? High time we wake up to world reality. Hope being a man from army you know how Iran supported Pakistan during most of the Indo-Pak wars.

RK^2
I will surely wait and watch that pipe line and gas in it reaches India as schduled but Rk sir it was indeed india's dream.I agree with u that selling gas is not as easy as selling oil may be but paying heavy prices as india is presently doing is also not the bargain india is looking forward to.I agree If india gains from the pipeline then pakistan will have its share tobut whose need it is?I think it is india's need at this hour.Cost of transportation will be redused to many folds by this and that is direct benefit to india.Gas line or no gas line india will be depended on other especially middle east for its oil and natural gas requirements.to our bad luck all of these countries are islamic nations and on certain issue these fundamentalist will never side india what so ever we do but we are not in position to make things bad to worse in terms of relations with them.
Now regarding Iran sidding with pakistan in all our wars with them,The biggest and the most obvious reason was relegion.why should we go that far off even 90 % of the kasmir supported pakistan in all these wars and trust be i have served in kasmir for long enough to say that things are no better presently too.They are desperate to be with pakistan.I remember in 1994 in soppore one of the biggest town in kashmir after srinagar and baramulla peaple declared independece in self stayled way had the rastriya rifles not taken adequate steps (harsh steps )things would have been very bad as if now.Peaple in kashmir still writes there address as pakistan in there letter.
what have we done about them?we are providing all sorts of priveledges to them despite them being so critical about so called secular structure.
I know u would be saying that i am sounding that we should have done what we have in present case.But sir i beleive that a known enemy is better then unknown one?I dont think US has ever given something gr8 to india so that we have some reasons to feel secure to go with allies.
yeah One more thing if there is a hidden commitment from allies that they will support India's claim for permanent seat in UN security council then on those terms I am with the decesion then this is a good bargain.
capt manjeet
 
devdahiya said:
.Let us rise above that short-sighted approach and start taking a balance view, keeoing Future of our GREAT NATION in mind. we tried tow the line with USSR[then super-dooper power]...what happened? We ought to have Short term and long term plannings/goals in toe,as they complement each other. I respect your stand as you are entitled to have it.

As still we can not say that weather this decision is a balancing step or not, but In my if we have gain nothing from our previous policy then there is nothing wrong to adopt some changes to bring favorable results.
What our non-allignment policy gave us except lot of enemy who remain ready everytime to oppose India on any issue at International platform. We have been unable to establish cordial relations even with our neighboured countries like China, Pakistan,
Bangladesh (jiska janamdata India hone ke baad bi India ko ankhe dikata rehta hai), Nepal (I don't count nepal as a friendly country to India).
We don't have a single friend(nation) on which we can believe. agar koi thora bhoot sath hai bi to uska bi koi matlab hai majboori hai...
Agar koi bi country principals ki baat nahi kar rehi hai to ham hi kyo iske geet gate rehe ?
We also should look toward our interests.... don't need to be emotional...
And I don't think that abstaining from voting would be a wise decision.. if you are on the position to express your views then you should do...goongo ki koi kimat nahi hoti...
 
here is another very balanced editorial from Tribune;

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050927/edit.htm#1

Let us accept that international politics isvery complex and most of sitting here do not have full view of things. India needs notonly oil but technology as well to compete with the developed world. The worrd horse trading originally came from Arabs. Chances are much higher for India to develop technologically by siding with Europe and USA. We know what all got so far by siding with USSR and developing world. How much muslims might hate Europe and USA, they still have to do business with them. Iran can not supply LPG to India without first commissioning the liquification plant and I hope you guys know about it. Iran has to import the liquification plant from France. Now think of a situation where Iran wants to sell gas to India but France does not supply the required plant to her..Things are not so staright forward as they might appear. There are many issues which need to be addressed..For the moment if we take it even a benefit of doubt case, India has taken the right decision. I won't be surprised if USA and Iran join hands in coming years as there are many indicators in that direction. USA wants to get out of Iraq as soon as possible. However, they have to safeguard the new Iraqi government. If left to fend for itself, Sunnis will never let it survive. Iran is the only country who can help the new government survive. USA is fully aware of it. In my view USA is just doing some sort of bargaining with Iran and things will settle. Don't forget that USA gave VISA to new Iranian president and allowed him to be in New York for UN convention. Let us not get carried away by high sounding morals which don't work in International diplomacy. Here almost every country double crosses other country...

RK^2
 
Bharat ek shantipriye desh hai

Hello to all

pehli baat toh i m sorry to reply late in this matter arr dusari baat Mhaara desh hai shantipriye desh arr hum toh iss duniya mein kuch bheee ho ja uska samarthan kar diya kara! ek baat aur hum gutnirpeksh bhee sa humne kisse toh kuch lena dena nahi ! ek baat aur America policies are not Americcan policies these polices are Bush policies and Bush ek bahut hee chatur politician hai and he is ruling not even America but the whole world. Rahee baat aapne Manmohan jee ki toh woh toh sabka mann moh hee rahe hain jahan jaate hain wahin par sab kuchh Manmohanmayee ho jaata hai! Last thing abt Pipeline mein ek baat sochun hoon akk jai Pipeline beech gayee arr pakistan ne usme aag laga dee toh ke hogga :p :p :confused: .

Any way i think India is doing very well at this stage and we all are hoping to fullfill the dream of develop nation in 2020.

Abhimanyu Phougat
 
There are no free lunches and one has to pay some price for any gain. How things change can be seen from the following news link;

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1244069.cms

There is no way for India to become a developed nation in isolation and without technological support from west. This is a hard fact and we all must know it. India needs senstive technology promptly if she has to compete. Who knows, oil/ gas supply challenge from Iran might do even good to India as that might force us to accelerate bio-fuel and solar power generation..

RK^2
 
Not convinced Bhai Mukesh ji

mukesh_kumar007 said:
As still we can not say that weather this decision is a balancing step or not, but In my if we have gain nothing from our previous policy then there is nothing wrong to adopt some changes to bring favorable results.
What our non-allignment policy gave us except lot of enemy who remain ready everytime to oppose India on any issue at International platform. We have been unable to establish cordial relations even with our neighboured countries like China, Pakistan,
Bangladesh (jiska janamdata India hone ke baad bi India ko ankhe dikata rehta hai), Nepal (I don't count nepal as a friendly country to India).
We don't have a single friend(nation) on which we can believe. agar koi thora bhoot sath hai bi to uska bi koi matlab hai majboori hai...
Agar koi bi country principals ki baat nahi kar rehi hai to ham hi kyo iske geet gate rehe ?
We also should look toward our interests.... don't need to be emotional...
And I don't think that abstaining from voting would be a wise decision.. if you are on the position to express your views then you should do...goongo ki koi kimat nahi hoti...



Mukesh bhai, tuum gussa pehle ho jate ho aur likhna baad mei shuru karte ho.You started this topic and indeed it is an interesting topic and when worthy members are expressing their views,they are doing it because they have some knowledge and taste of the subject you have brought out. So let us discuss some substance and not brag around Nepal and Bhutan. whatever a nation gets from others depends on its own self respect and if bangladesh is showing eyes then you must understand as to where we stand in this world. You said that why should we think of self respect when no other country is thinking, you have answered our question dear. Reason is simple Without self respect, whether it is an Animal,human being or a Nation...no body will respect them. Any way i did not want to respond to your reply as i found a lots of air of ignorance and arrogance in it but as an elder brother thought it appropriate to to do so. Have lots of patiance if you want to do well in life....dont loose your shirt always. What did you mean by that GOONGGA-Behra.......beyond my grasp and aprehension dear. Wish you wisdom and happiness.
 
You Are Pure Hypothetical

rkumar said:
There are no free lunches and one has to pay some price for any gain. How things change can be seen from the following news link;

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1244069.cms

There is no way for India to become a developed nation in isolation and without technological support from west. This is a hard fact and we all must know it. India needs senstive technology promptly if she has to compete. Who knows, oil/ gas supply challenge from Iran might do even good to India as that might force us to accelerate bio-fuel and solar power generation..

RK^2





Respect worthy Rajendra bhai ji,

You are hypothetical here. bhains aagi te doodhh ho jyaga nahin te sukhi sahi. China has not progressed and reached where it is ,solely due to the backing of so called west [Now please don't talk of trade and 'Videshi nivesh' by US in China. You ought to pour a little more wisdom sir. waiting!
 
devdahiya said:
Respect worthy Rajendra bhai ji,

You are hypothetical here. bhains aagi te doodhh ho jyaga nahin te sukhi sahi. China has not progressed and reached where it is ,solely due to the backing of so called west [Now please don't talk of trade and 'Videshi nivesh' by US in China. You ought to pour a little more wisdom sir. waiting!

May be my views are different than your Dahiya ji on the subject and this is why it all appears hypothetical. Fact of the matter is that in true sence only one country voted for Iran and that is venzuella. By abstaining Russia and China also have indirectly favourd the USA. Time is not ripe for India to get into the shoes of Russia and China. It will be another 10-15 years before we can do that. If we take into consideration all benefit verses risks, India has done the right thing by voting for the motion. Don't think I have anything more to add to my arguments now on this subject.

aur rahee baat bhains ki. Khali bhainse liye firne se bhi doodh nahi miltaa...usko gyabhan karne ke liye ek jhota bhi chahiye aur doodh nikalne ke liye koi duhne wala bhi...high moral ki bhainsen doodh nahi diyaa karte Dahiya Ji.

RK^2
 
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Point taken

rkumar said:
May be my views are different than your Dahiya ji on the subject and this is why it all appears hypothetical. Fact of the matter is that in true sence only one country voted for Iran and that is venzuella. By abstaining Russia and China also have indirectly favourd the USA. Time is not ripe for India to get into the shoes of Russia and China. It will be another 10-15 years before we can do that. If we take into consideration all benefit verses risks, India has done the right thing by voting for the motion. Don't think I have anything more to add to my arguments now on this subject.

RK^2




Rajendra ji your point well taken. I do respect your stand...though would like you to agree to that of mine...ha...ha...ha....................Thanx for the interest generated. Leave the buffalow for the time being.......???
 
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Not so Simple...

Dear All,

These issues of diplomacy and power politics are not as simple as they seem to be. Sadly there are no rights and wrongs in international diplomacy. At times it is considered OK to side with a brutal dictator (N number of cases when the western world looked the other way. Idi Amin was eating human brain, literally!!!) and at other inappropriate times it is OK to neglect a democracy (like India has been neglected so far). I believe relations between nations can't be held hostage to a single issue.

India and Iran have had relations from the ancient times. Don't equate a nations history with 50 or 100 years. All those who have deep knowledge of the subject also know that Shia resentment is less harmful than Sunni terrorism. The space constraints do not allow me to expand on this fact.

Pipeline or no pipeline, the fact of the matter is that US would never let regional groupings take shape or flourish in Asia, especially in South Asia. The reasons are historical, geo political and strategic. How will they keep their arms industries running if there is peace in the Middle East or South Asia? Economics, simple and straight. Uncle Sam will go to any length to achieve their clearly defined long term strategic goals, and when they are done with this world, believe you me, they will settle down on Mars.

Now about my dear country, INDIA. I wish we were the most powerful nation on this planet but nothing happens just by wishing. In my view the undermentioned factors would never let us progress beyond a certain point:

(a) Kashmir Issue and the growing trend of sub nationalistic separatist demands.
(b) Communal disharmony and caste divide.
(c) Increasing gap between Rich and Poor.
(d) Growing number of displaced people due to reasons of development.
(e) AIDS.
(f) Discredited polity and corrupt politicians.
(g) Lack of basic amenities (Water, Health, Education & Shelter).
(h) Absence of a Leader who can inspire confidence.

We keep discussing about the Permanent Seat in the Security Council. Well, some may say if you don't dream you may never realise them. OK, but one can dream better when the tummy is full. The reality is: farmers committing suicide, increasing crime, every fourth MP is a criminal and a 'Crorepati' (good combination), leaderless country, growing tendencies of sub nationalism in the four corners of the country (including the fast growing threat of Maoists that we don't want to see), degradation of environment, etc. etc. Will all our problems be solved after becoming PM of SC?

Now the UN. Which problem has the UN solved so far? Sending aid, that too selective, to few countries is no achievement. Do you know how many children die daily in NIGER because of hunger? The number of resolutions adopted, passed and 'not implemented' are indicative of its effectiveness. Palestine, Korea, Kashmir (Due to foolishness of Nehru), Cyprus and now Afghanistan, Iraq. Whatever problem has been solved has been done so by NATO for its self interest, because they care two hoots for the UN. Bosnia is an example. The UN is silent on Darfur. Why? Because Uncle SAM is not interested. Simple. My view is that Non Aligned Movement should be revived and let the proud nations of Asia, Africa and South Amarica come together, withdraw from UN, form their own organisation and solve issues themselves. It is only then the proud people of countries like Brazil, Indonesia, Argentina, Egypt, India, Iraq, Iran, South Africa and China will have a say in world affairs. And if that does not happen we would remain a nation that supplies cheap labor or produces stuff at a much cheaper rate than the West. Basically slaves, but with a different name.

What punitive action have we taken so far against Bangladesh, forget Pakistan? Now the Maoists from Nepal will become a pain in the neck for Uttranchal, UP and Bihar. In fact they are creating a corridor from the borders of Nepal to AP. But our leaders will sleep till there are blasts all over, then rush the Army to yet another front. More funds will be released for 'Tightening Security' and everyone will benefit from the fund inflow and subsequent misuse. But the problem will remain.

Baki desh to chal he raha hai. Sab mauj mein hain. Simple sa 'Funda' hai aajkal. Ek jindagi hai, jitna kha sako khao (Chara mile to Chara, Note mile to Note), jitna kama sako kamao (by whatever means), loot sako to looto, after all DESH TO APNA HI HAI.

I can't stop but narrate something that I am reminded of, obviously helped by the quote about Jhotta/Saand by RK Ji. Here it goes: A Saand (USA) was roaming around in a forest, bilkul mast ho ke. One Zebra (Third world country) meekly asks the Saand "Bhai Saheb, aap kon ho or kya Karte ho? Saand replies: Saale, main Saand hoon. Ar jo ye jaanna chahta hai ki main kya karta hoon te tar pyjama". Musharraf ne pyjama utara tha and he is already accusing USA of leaving Pakistan high and dry. Now India is ready...

Regards,

JS Malik
 
Crux is now out

Thanx Jagmohan sir. I think you covered it all and all corners properly filled. Any country aspiring to dominate this world or atleast wants to be in SUPER BLOCK has to have atleast these Qualifications[as i feel]


1] Should have a Nationalistic and progressive leadership [and what have we?]
2] Knowlege/grasp of the history,with lessons learnt[state policy should be based on this]...[Our historians are our vote hungary Netas]
3] Foresight and dream of prosperity for the people and nation.
4] Collective responsibility, sense of duty and accountability of each citizen.
5] High moral standards and a sense of Dignity
6] Eagerness/hunger to learn and experiment.
7] Equality
8] Absence of Terrorism/man made disturbances
9] Strong[pro-active] foreign policy
10] Lastly a type of ruthlessness to succeed at any cost.


There may be more but i feel they are must.If India can do that then We may not require to discuss issues like this ie whether India did right or wrong?......Kangaali mei aatta geela wali baat hai abb to.
 
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Malik Sahab,

Its always healthy to ponder upon one's short-comings. However, constant self ridiculing also does not do any good to one's moral or future capabilities. As an individual or as a nation we all need to monitor our actions and then correct accordingly. All this has to go on along with the day to day actions we need to take on important issues. Every nation is facing some or the other type of problem and we are not unique. There is a strong debate going on insde almost every country. Whatever our short-comings might be, world has at last taken notice of us and started counting us among world powers. This is no big an achievemnt for a nation who was almost about to default on her loan payments. Here is another link to the views of an American intellectual;

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/27/EDGA8ET9TR1.DTL

one can see how even Americans are critical of their own actions. Its heartening to note how India is being mentioned among world powers. If I am permitted to mention one single problem most Indians suffer from is self pity and nothing else. We have to convice first ourselves that we can make it big in world affairs. Ridiculing ourselves most of the time is not going to solve a single issue. Each one of us has to install the feeling among our fellow citizens that India will be great sooner than later. Positive thought is the most important need of the hour. All other problems will fall in place once we take this most important step. Uncle Sham knows very well now that he can not handle all the zebras roaming in jungle...Many other uncles are jumping now to have their share of the zebras . High time India moves forward, leaving behind the rows of zebras...

RK^2
 
Mixed up things again

rkumar said:
Malik Sahab,

Its always healthy to ponder upon one's short-comings. However, constant self ridiculing also does not do any good to one's moral or future capabilities. As an individual or as a nation we all need to monitor our actions and then correct accordingly. All this has to go on along with the day to day actions we need to take on important issues. Every nation is facing some or the other type of problem and we are not unique. There is a strong debate going on insde almost every country. Whatever our short-comings might be, world has at last taken notice of us and started counting us among world powers. This is no big an achievemnt for a nation who was almost about to default on her loan payments. Here is another link to the views of an American intellectual;

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/27/EDGA8ET9TR1.DTL

one can see how even Americans are critical of their own actions. Its heartening to note how India is being mentioned among world powers. If I am permitted to mention one single problem most Indians suffer from is self pity and nothing else. We have to convice first ourselves that we can make it big in world affairs. Ridiculing ourselves most of the time is not going to solve a single issue. Each one of us has to install the feeling among our fellow citizens that India will be great sooner than later. Positive thought is the most important need of the hour. All other problems will fall in place once we take this most important step. Uncle Sham knows very well now that he can not handle all the zebras roaming in jungle...Many other uncles are jumping now to have their share of the zebras . High time India moves forward, leaving behind the rows of zebras...

RK^2



Rejendra bhai jaan, You mixed up the things once again.India is not seen as a Super Power or something to them? Rather it is seen as a huge consumer of their ready made stuff and well crafted ideas and mind you All this Suits and Benefit them maximum......Hardly any thing is passed on to WE THE TIGERS OF JUNGLE .....If i dare call so. We all know as to where we stand in this world and what can be the probable options BUT STILL I WILL ALWAYS ADVOCATE A PATH WHICH IS LESS SINFUL.........?
 
devdahiya said:
Rejendra bhai jaan, You mixed up the things once again.India is not seen as a Super Power or something to them? Rather it is seen as a huge consumer of their ready made stuff and well crafted ideas and mind you All this Suits and Benefit them maximum......Hardly any thing is passed on to WE THE TIGERS OF JUNGLE .....If i dare call so. We all know as to where we stand in this world and what can be the probable options BUT STILL I WILL ALWAYS ADVOCATE A PATH WHICH IS LESS SINFUL.........?

There are no super powers left Dahiya Ji on this Earth as of today. Last super power went down the winds and waters of Katrina... If we are consumers of their goods, they too are consumers of our services and goods...Almost all western leaders are loosing their sleeps these days thinking of the competition originating from India and China....let us cheer up and think positive...make India great...

RK^2
 
Cheers!

rkumar said:
There are no super powers left Dahiya Ji on this Earth as of today. Last super power went down the winds and waters of Katrina... If we are consumers of their goods, they too are consumers of our services and goods...Almost all western leaders are loosing their sleeps these days thinking of the competition originating from India and China....let us cheer up and think positive...make India great...

RK^2




If that be so then cheers! par thodda sambhal kar Rajendra ji...ha...ha...ha?
 
devdahiya said:
If that be so then cheers! par thodda sambhal kar Rajendra ji...ha...ha...ha?

Bhai Dahiya Sambhlna to maine paida hote hi sun liya thaa......kyonki mere gaon ka naam hi Sambhalka hai...hehhehehee...

This is the latest from future UK prime minister and present Treasury secretary Gordan Brown;

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1501944,00050003.htm

He is not the only one. Almost every day one comes across such views from every quarter in the western world these days..If whole world is taking notice of us, why we Indians are sleeping in the past ? High time together we move with renewed confidence and make India great.

RK^2
 
Ye hui mardon wali baat

rkumar said:
Bhai Dahiya Sambhlna to maine paida hote hi sun liya thaa......kyonki mere gaon ka naam hi Sambhalka hai...hehhehehee...

This is the latest from future UK prime minister and present Treasury secretary Gordan Brown;

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1501944,00050003.htm

He is not the only one. Almost every day one comes across such views from every quarter in the western world these days..If whole world is taking notice of us, why we Indians are sleeping in the past ? High time together we move with renewed confidence and make India great.

RK^2



.......SORRY .....Posted twice......regrets please.
 
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Ye hui mardon wali baat

rkumar said:
Bhai Dahiya Sambhlna to maine paida hote hi sun liya thaa......kyonki mere gaon ka naam hi Sambhalka hai...hehhehehee...

This is the latest from future UK prime minister and present Treasury secretary Gordan Brown;

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1501944,00050003.htm

He is not the only one. Almost every day one comes across such views from every quarter in the western world these days..If whole world is taking notice of us, why we Indians are sleeping in the past ? High time together we move with renewed confidence and make India great.

RK^2




Kya adda hai Rajendra bhai...........Bang on regrdless....par pher bhi kahoonga.........Dekh kei....ummar ka khyal kar kei.......ha...ha...ha. Jai ram ji ki. Go India Go.........Find a place in the sky.
 
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