India backs IAEA resolution : - New change in Foriegn Policy...

[jagmohan]

I Don't Agree...

RK Ji,

While I agree with you about feeling positive and all that we do to motivate people, I don't quite agree on the issue that everyone in the world is calling us great. I will consider my country great only when the tears of the poorest of the poor are taken care of. Remember Mahatma Gandhi? I am not ready to believe all these statements, most of them with double, hidden and sinister meaning by these intellectuals of the West about the greatness of our country. I am ready to be leaning towards a bit of pessimism rather than be overly optimistic.

Having served the nation, in my own humble way as as a soldier, I do understand and rather clearly the psychological games the white race plays. India will never be a super power just because the Western world accepts us as one. Even China has a long way to go before they too become a truly great nation. High time they stop gangs sponsored by the builders from forcibly removing villagers from their agricultural land, stop forcible abortions in the villages that are far away from the media glare and treat Tibetians with honor and respect.

A poor man's stomach can be filled only by two square meals a day and not by telling him how India is now being accepted as a world power by the so called powerful nations. Agar kisi bhooke JAT ko bol diya to sar phood dega!!

While we have wasted one full week on the Ganguly - Chappel debate, our politicians have no time to bother about the internal dangers staring in our faces. I too am very much an Indian and hope that we become a great nation, so great that our Defence Minister is not humiliated on an American airport.

Iran has already spoken out on what it felt by India's actions. I am sure Iran is feeling as though it has been stabbed in the back by a friend. Et Tu India...

Regards,

JS Malik

 

[rkumar]

As I can see, the story is unfolding further and further in media. Interestingly, 3/4th of world media is talking only of Indian vote and hardly there is any talk about anyone else. Out of entire media, its Indian media which is prediting the future more than telling the truth. Hindu ofcourse is taking the lead role as far as I can see. Hindu seems to be getting the news from Iranians before even our government. Most interesting news item is;

http://www.hindu.com/2005/09/28/stories/2005092807461200.htm

Whole world had gone around beating the bushes about supporting or opposing the G4 UNSC bid, how come Hindu learns relaibly now that Iran was going to support India for her UNSC bid? How come Iran was silent till today on her support? Was Iran playing some bargaining game with India? Though India and and Iran signed the Gas supply deal, the same was not ratified by Iran. Was it not to have some bargaining power ?

All this simply shows that things are not as simple as they appear. Every party has its own agenda, be it media or anyone. Government of India is the only party who knows the entire truth and therefore in a position to take right decision. Media is the one whom one will trust the last if one goes by latest episodes called THE MITROKHIN MYSTERY whereby they claim that KGB and CIA etc had bought over most of Indian news papers to play their games. Communists play to China and Russian galary, news papers also play to their pay masters. Looks like no one plays for India... After reading the latest Hindu story, I am more convinced that India did the right thing in voting for the motion. The gas deal we are talking of has not been ratified by Iran and will need liquifying facilities which they have to import from France and other European countries. The gas supply was to start in 2009. India can not be hostage to Iran or anyone till 2009. India has played very smart card as far as I can see. India has sent a very clear signal to USA and other Nuclear Supply Group countries to act fast to ratify the Indo-Us Nuclear agreements before November, else they can not expect India to vote once again..Might be worthwile to read the follwing analysis by C Raja Mohan;

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=79012

Funniest thing what I have noticed is that its only the Indian media who is printing all fiction on the matter. Iran media has not said a word against India till date. Looks like as if Iranian government sends all the briefs first to Indian media...LOL. I am giving links to official Iranian media. Read for yourself if anyone of you find any mention against India...

http://www.irna.ir/en/

http://www.iran-daily.com/1384/2387/html/


RK^2

 

[ramksehrawat]

I am sorry to have missed action, a bit longer this time owing to my movement from Seoul to San Francisco.

I wonder what prompted our Government to vote against our time tested, centuries old friend Iran. Is it indicative of our complete surrender and kow-towing before the US ? The worst part is that even our babus and political outfits back home were not even briefed, leave alone prior consultations. First nuclear deal and now this vote confirms that our policy makers have ceded advantage to Pakistan by agreeing not to have a bomb. (Pakistan can have).

Before voting against, was any thought given to our energy needs ? No. Result ? Energy crisis, especially gas, are in offing in not to distant future. Take my word. If we were to go against Iran why did we waste our time and money in conceptualizing gas pipe through Pakistan ?

Won't the propogandists, especially RSS/BJP will take advantage and paint Congress as "anti-Muslims", being weak-kneed having bowed before US ? This sudden turn in our non-existent and whimsical foreign policy is mind blowing. In Gulf/Far Eastern countries, Iran was the only country with whom we had cosy and friendly relations. That too is gone. Remember, during Narsimha Rao's time when Kashmir Resolution in the UN was almost through, it was only Iran which had helped us by not supporting its introduction. We have certainly stabbed them back and should be ashamed of ourselves. At best we could stay away from the voting.

 

[rkumar]

I am sorry to have missed action, a bit longer this time owing to my movement from Seoul to San Francisco.

I wonder what prompted our Government to vote against our time tested, centuries old friend Iran. Is it indicative of our complete surrender and kow-towing before the US ? The worst part is that even our babus and political outfits back home were not even briefed, leave alone prior consultations. First nuclear deal and now this vote confirms that our policy makers have ceded advantage to Pakistan by agreeing not to have a bomb. (Pakistan can have).

Before voting against, was any thought given to our energy needs ? No. Result ? Energy crisis, especially gas, are in offing in not to distant future. Take my word. If we were to go against Iran why did we waste our time and money in conceptualizing gas pipe through Pakistan ?

Won't the propogandists, especially RSS/BJP will take advantage and paint Congress as "anti-Muslims", being weak-kneed having bowed before US ? This sudden turn in our non-existent and whimsical foreign policy is mind blowing. In Gulf/Far Eastern countries, Iran was the only country with whom we had cosy and friendly relations. That too is gone. Remember, during Narsimha Rao's time when Kashmir Resolution in the UN was almost through, it was only Iran which had helped us by not supporting its introduction. We have certainly stabbed them back and should be ashamed of ourselves. At best we could stay away from the voting.

Sehrawat Sahab,

I don't think international relations are run on emotions. Hard ground realities have to be taken into account. Now coming to your points;

1. I don't know how one talks of Iran as our centuries old friend. Even a school kid will tell that Iranians attacked us as late as Nadir Shah and then his Afghan general Ahmed Shah Abdali. During all Indo-Pak wars Iran gave total support to Pakistan and allowed Paki fighter planes to be parked on their airports. At best we had working relations with them which in diplomatic terms one can call friendly and cultural.

2. Its totally incorrect to say that India has surrendered its interests to USA. India has braved all through to face US and lived under US sanctions when it came to national interests. India has voted against US resolutions in UN more times than even Cuba in past. Howeve, let us remember that we are not living in cold war era any more. We have to move with tide. India maintained its positiuon all through that diplomacy should be given the chance to deal with Iran and has been successful in incorporating the same in the resolution. India has sent a very clear message to everyone that she has her own national interests which precede over anything else. Iran has also understood it now and her anger has softened considerably.

3. Debate is good in democracy but there are some very sensitive issues which can not be made public. All one billion people can not be consulted by government on every issue. No nation does that and India is no exception.

4. India imports only 5% of her oil and this alone can not take care of our energy needs. Oil is not going to last for ever and we have to obtain alternative technologies like Nuclear power well in time. Therefor USA and other nuclear suppliers are equally important to India as Iran.

5. Let us now look at trade and other relations with various countries. Whatever one might say, USA remains our biggest trade partner. Iran falls nowhere on the list except meeting our 5% energy needs. If India has to choose between two, one need not work hard to make the choice. India can not afford to spoil her relations with USA and west at least for another 20 years. India can certainly manage a Iran or her alike.

6. The issue is not of anti muslim or anti Iran or anything like that. The issue is purely of India's intersts. I have no doubt that India has taken the right decision in voting for the resolution.

7. Now coming to Pakistan having the bomb and India surrendering her bombs. This is factually incorrect as India will maintain its military reactors as well under the agreement. We already have enough number of reactors to meet our defence needs.

Hard reality is that in international politics there are no permanent friends or foes. National interests are supreme. Some times one has to make difficult choices and this was one of them. Who knows Iran, India and USA might end up in the same camp in near future...Its a strange world and nothing can be ruled out. If Pakistan can be good friend to both China and USA, why can't India begin to think along the same lines. I see all the indications of India trying to win over Iran and USA in the same camp.

RK^2

 

[devdahiya]

Opening up of the past

Rajendra ji, agar gadde murde ukhhado ge to [nadir shah refers] koi aissa desh nahin hai ya aissi sabhyata nahi milegi jisne apne self interests ke liye chhurre na ghonppe hon[our great India included] So let us not dig the past. As regards to the foreign policy,it needs to be sustained and practiced and not immaturly decided in spur of the moment.There is no doubt with me that out of all muslim nations,India enjoyed the best cordial relations with Iraq and Iran and hence what ever the compulsions with India, a friend like Iran stands betrayed. Your lengthy logic can take you as far as the snails go, but truth is here to look through all of us. It is time to think and ponder as good friends are not easy to find .RK SEHRAWAT BHAI JI WELCOME BACK.

 

[radhikachhillar]

agreed

Dear All,

These issues of diplomacy and power politics are not as simple as they seem to be. Sadly there are no rights and wrongs in international diplomacy. At times it is considered OK to side with a brutal dictator (N number of cases when the western world looked the other way. Idi Amin was eating human brain, literally!!!) and at other inappropriate times it is OK to neglect a democracy (like India has been neglected so far). I believe relations between nations can't be held hostage to a single issue.

India and Iran have had relations from the ancient times. Don't equate a nations history with 50 or 100 years. All those who have deep knowledge of the subject also know that Shia resentment is less harmful than Sunni terrorism. The space constraints do not allow me to expand on this fact.

Pipeline or no pipeline, the fact of the matter is that US would never let regional groupings take shape or flourish in Asia, especially in South Asia. The reasons are historical, geo political and strategic. How will they keep their arms industries running if there is peace in the Middle East or South Asia? Economics, simple and straight. Uncle Sam will go to any length to achieve their clearly defined long term strategic goals, and when they are done with this world, believe you me, they will settle down on Mars.

Now about my dear country, INDIA. I wish we were the most powerful nation on this planet but nothing happens just by wishing. In my view the undermentioned factors would never let us progress beyond a certain point:

(a) Kashmir Issue and the growing trend of sub nationalistic separatist demands.
(b) Communal disharmony and caste divide.
(c) Increasing gap between Rich and Poor.
(d) Growing number of displaced people due to reasons of development.
(e) AIDS.
(f) Discredited polity and corrupt politicians.
(g) Lack of basic amenities (Water, Health, Education & Shelter).
(h) Absence of a Leader who can inspire confidence.

We keep discussing about the Permanent Seat in the Security Council. Well, some may say if you don't dream you may never realise them. OK, but one can dream better when the tummy is full. The reality is: farmers committing suicide, increasing crime, every fourth MP is a criminal and a 'Crorepati' (good combination), leaderless country, growing tendencies of sub nationalism in the four corners of the country (including the fast growing threat of Maoists that we don't want to see), degradation of environment, etc. etc. Will all our problems be solved after becoming PM of SC?

Now the UN. Which problem has the UN solved so far? Sending aid, that too selective, to few countries is no achievement. Do you know how many children die daily in NIGER because of hunger? The number of resolutions adopted, passed and 'not implemented' are indicative of its effectiveness. Palestine, Korea, Kashmir (Due to foolishness of Nehru), Cyprus and now Afghanistan, Iraq. Whatever problem has been solved has been done so by NATO for its self interest, because they care two hoots for the UN. Bosnia is an example. The UN is silent on Darfur. Why? Because Uncle SAM is not interested. Simple. My view is that Non Aligned Movement should be revived and let the proud nations of Asia, Africa and South Amarica come together, withdraw from UN, form their own organisation and solve issues themselves. It is only then the proud people of countries like Brazil, Indonesia, Argentina, Egypt, India, Iraq, Iran, South Africa and China will have a say in world affairs. And if that does not happen we would remain a nation that supplies cheap labor or produces stuff at a much cheaper rate than the West. Basically slaves, but with a different name.

What punitive action have we taken so far against Bangladesh, forget Pakistan? Now the Maoists from Nepal will become a pain in the neck for Uttranchal, UP and Bihar. In fact they are creating a corridor from the borders of Nepal to AP. But our leaders will sleep till there are blasts all over, then rush the Army to yet another front. More funds will be released for 'Tightening Security' and everyone will benefit from the fund inflow and subsequent misuse. But the problem will remain.

Baki desh to chal he raha hai. Sab mauj mein hain. Simple sa 'Funda' hai aajkal. Ek jindagi hai, jitna kha sako khao (Chara mile to Chara, Note mile to Note), jitna kama sako kamao (by whatever means), loot sako to looto, after all DESH TO APNA HI HAI.

I can't stop but narrate something that I am reminded of, obviously helped by the quote about Jhotta/Saand by RK Ji. Here it goes: A Saand (USA) was roaming around in a forest, bilkul mast ho ke. One Zebra (Third world country) meekly asks the Saand "Bhai Saheb, aap kon ho or kya Karte ho? Saand replies: Saale, main Saand hoon. Ar jo ye jaanna chahta hai ki main kya karta hoon te tar pyjama". Musharraf ne pyjama utara tha and he is already accusing USA of leaving Pakistan high and dry. Now India is ready...

Regards,

JS Malik

i agree wd u sir.

 

[spdeshwal]

I fully agree with you Rajender Kalkhunde ji. Kahte hai na ki, Dhara ke bahav mai nahi Dhara ke vipreet tairne(swim) mai hi purusharth hai.

 

[raj2rif]

No Permanent Friends

Now about my dear country, INDIA. I wish we were the most powerful nation on this planet but nothing happens just by wishing. In my view the undermentioned factors would never let us progress beyond a certain point:

(a) Kashmir Issue and the growing trend of sub nationalistic separatist demands.
(b) Communal disharmony and caste divide.
(c) Increasing gap between Rich and Poor.
(d) Growing number of displaced people due to reasons of development.
(e) AIDS.
(f) Discredited polity and corrupt politicians.
(g) Lack of basic amenities (Water, Health, Education & Shelter).
(h) Absence of a Leader who can inspire confidence.

Dear All,

I am sorry I missed this interesting debate. Good to read the views of the member. Col Malik has analyzed the problem in great detail and has expressed his views in most explicit manner. I however have following observations to make:
1. In international relations there are no permanent friends and no permanent enemies. There are only permanent interests. Today, probably it may be more profitable for India to be closer to the West as compared to one single nation. We had been heavily dependent on the Middle Eastern Countries for the sake of Oil in the past as well as the muslim vote bank that is associated with the foreign policy towards that part of the world. I guess PM Manmohan's government has taken an independent decision on this issue and to me it looks logical. We are earning substiantial amount of foreign exchange from the Western World through the services we are providing to them. This has also generated a lot of employment and that needs to be kept in mind. Regarding the supply of Oil. With Iran mostly isolated, some one has to buy the Iranian Oil. West has got its reserves and availability through Saudi Arabia and now Iraq and other Middle Eastern Countries. Thus most countries that can consume most Iranian Oil are probably India and China. China already have a big trade agreement on this issue. So, India need not worry on this account.
Now some questions about the domestic problems Vs the foreign policy. All countries have domestic problems and so do we. But that does not mean that we don't have to take a foreign policy decision. While becoming a super power or being considered a super power may not fill and empty stomach in the country, it does not take away the bread from the one who have it either. So, these domestic problems have to be sorted out separately and can't be linked to totally to the foreign policy. In 1971 Russia gave us 130 MM guns but no ammunition. The ammunition came from the country with whom we did not have diplomatic relations. So the issue of foreign policy is not as simple as it looks to be.

Now one observation on the problem Col Malik has raised. Kindly refer to sub para (b) of Col Malik's post. Castism/ communal and caste divide. On this very site many members including Col Malik have said that Jat Sikh are different than the Hindu Jats. If we see the history, then probably would no that there is not much difference among the two communities, except the fact that current Jat Sikh's are the decendents of the Jats who opted to follow the way of life Guru Nanak Ji has shown to the people. There has been another school of thought on this very site about "Karma' and caste. Considering Communal divide as one of the root cause of the problems the nation is facing and still keeping the Jat community restricted to Hindu Jats as people call it ( to me a Jat is a jat, irrespective of the religion he / she follows) does not go well with me. To me it looks conflicting in itself.
I think India has taken a good stand this time. We need to move forward and just not remain attached to the past for ever.
In case I have offended any one by this post, I extend my sincere apologies in advance. These are purely my views and observations and I am not a perfect person.

 

[ramksehrawat]

Rajendraji,

Emotion is humane, human without emotions is no better than a statue; be it personal matters or running governments or practising diplomacy. After all attack on Iraq resulted because of emtions of Bush than anything else.

If because of Nadir Shah and Ahmad Shah Abdali, Iranians are unfriendly then what would you say of USA for their stance towards India during 1971 war ? I am sure you have not forgotten the recent declassification of Kissinger papers !!! If action of one or two persons represent the attitude of all groups/community/nations, it means all Muslims are terrorists ? If a friend goes wayward counseling is the best course than to join hands with his enemies !!!

If we had voted against US, it was on the behest of USSR. We have never been independent in our decision taking or raising voice. The recent decisions on aircraft purchases and vote on Iran are indications enough that our government is bowing before America. What happened to our non-alligned principles ? First we moved away from Russia and now Iran. If economic reasons are the only basis than why our late PM Mrs. Gandhi was so emotional about Palestine or African countries ?

As regards consultations back home, I am not referring to the referendum. What I meant to say was that at least the political parties and Cabinet should have been taken into confidence which was not the case. Even the parties on whose support they survive are raising hue and cry. Or, just the PM or Sonia’s wishes are the wishes of one billion people ?

Personally, I am of the view that staying away would have been the best course as did several other countries including Pakistan. After all Iran is signatory to NPT and the issue legally should be settled between IAEA and Iran and US or India should not become “chaudharies”.

As for friendship with US, Americans are nobody’s friends. They are only banias and all their activities revolve around protecting their economic interests. Albeit, dangerous banias who tells people what they can have and what not !!! How, would we feel if a bania in our village start telling as to how many “jellies” and “lathis” we can have to qualifies for taking “udhar” from him.

 

[raj2rif]

Rajendraji,

Emotion is humane, human without emotions is no better than a statue; be it personal matters or running governments or practising diplomacy. After all attack on Iraq resulted because of emtions of Bush than anything else.

Well in my opinion one can't run government on emotions. We need to be rational rather than emotional and that how successful governments function. The attack on Iraq has been questioned both within US and Worldwide and thus can't be justified in the manner in which it was started.
If because of Nadir Shah and Ahmad Shah Abdali, Iranians are unfriendly then what would you say of USA for their stance towards India during 1971 war ? I am sure you have not forgotten the recent declassification of Kissinger papers !!! If action of one or two persons represent the attitude of all groups/community/nations, it means all Muslims are terrorists ? If a friend goes wayward counseling is the best course than to join hands with his enemies

Nadirshah, Ahmad Shah Abdali and Henry Kissinger all are history and we can't run future on history. We need to look forward and see where our national interest lie now and in future. All muslims are not terrorists. Some of them are even better and more nationalistics than even Hindus. We have had people of the calibre of Dr. Zakir Hussain, Dr. Fakhruddin Ali Ahmad and now our current President. Thus, the US stance in 1971 can't be the guiding factor to decided the current and future foreign policy. There is no harm in keeping good relations with the developing world as well as developed countries.

If we had voted against US, it was on the behest of USSR. We have never been independent in our decision taking or raising voice. The recent decisions on aircraft purchases and vote on Iran are indications enough that our government is bowing before America. What happened to our non-alligned principles ? First we moved away from Russia and now Iran. If economic reasons are the only basis than why our late PM Mrs. Gandhi was so emotional about Palestine or African countries ?

Voting against US in the past on behest of USSR was wrong thing to do, but I guess we had to keep our promise of 20 year defense treaty that we signed with Russia. That should give enough duplicity of our so called non-aligned policy. The non - aligned principle in fact was never followed in letter and spirit. One can't isolate itself from the main stream. Mrs. Gandhi's emotions as well as of most of the successive governments stance on the Palestine issue had been influenced by our dependency on Arab world for oil as well as the muslim vote bank at home. So that should not be taken as the emotional issue. Israel and we face the same common enemy in the form of Islamic Fundamentalism. It is good that we are now having good relations with Israel. Mr. Yasar Arafat never allowed the mid east peace process to reach a conclusion for it would have ended his supremecy in the Palestine. The funds accumulated by him as PLO president while Palestainian are starving showed his true character. In any case he started as a terrorist and only towards the later part of his career became moderate to some extent. But Hamas nurtured and groomed under his rule.

As regards consultations back home, I am not referring to the referendum. What I meant to say was that at least the political parties and Cabinet should have been taken into confidence which was not the case. Even the parties on whose support they survive are raising hue and cry. Or, just the PM or Sonia’s wishes are the wishes of one billion people ?

I don't consider Left Parties doing any thing in the National interest. There sole aim is to criticize BJP and support the minority community as is the case with Samajwadi Party. Most parties are having only one policy and that is oppose every thing that BJP does in the garb of socialism. I am not purporting to say that what ever BJP does is right, but that has bee the stance for most of the small parties be it Samajwadi Party, BSP or RJD. I am happy that this time the country and the government has taken an independent stance and the foreign policy has not been influenced by our dependency on Arab World and the muslim vote bank at home.

Personally, I am of the view that staying away would have been the best course as did several other countries including Pakistan. After all Iran is signatory to NPT and the issue legally should be settled between IAEA and Iran and US or India should not become “chaudharies”.

Being neutral does not indicate any thing. If one feels that the resolution was wrong then they should have voted against it and if they felt it was right then for it. Abstaining means nothing? and shows a state of confusion and vaccum in the policy.
As for friendship with US, Americans are nobody’s friends. They are only banias and all their activities revolve around protecting their economic interests. Albeit, dangerous banias who tells people what they can have and what not !!! How, would we feel if a bania in our village start telling as to how many “jellies” and “lathis” we can have to qualifies for taking “udhar” from him.

Well American's are no one's friend and so is the case with China, Russia and other countries. As I had mentioned in my earlier post, it is the permanent interest what matters in the international relations. And as far as the example of Bania is concerned, then if the dependency is total then well one has to follow the dictate. Why Bania our own Thakurs and Zamindar's had decided in their territories as to what people could have what they could not.

In the conclusion, I would say that it is not in the interest of any country in the world to allow a Nuclear weapon in any country led either by dictators or by fundamentalist governments. To that extent, our current government has taken a right step and let us support it.

 

[devdahiya]

As Regards To This Site

My personal views please:AND MAY I RESPECTFULLY SUBMIT?


Why not this site be for JATS exclusive? There are crores of sites on the NET and crores of people visit these sites every day and if we are averse to the idea of identification and pride in self then why write DAHIYA,HOODA,TEVATHIA,MALIK,RATHEE,BURDAK,PILANIA,JAKHAR etc infront of our names. I tolerate all religions and castes and hate nothing, inspite of my being a strong propegator of JAT WELL BEING. Why we suffer from this complex always and this ghost of JATS/NON JATS COMES ALIVE every third day here on JATLAND. Because of this undesired controvercy many decent and well meaning friends of ours have left this site, which i feel could have been avoided. Who stops anybody from going to some Bania,Sindhi,Punjabi,Negro,Marwadi or any other SO CALLED 'SECULAR" site and preach secularism out there. Agar hamnei ghar banaya hei to appne privar ke liye banaya hai, Sab ke liye bistar nahin lagayenge. Let us first sort out our house ;which is on fire and needs the selfless contribution from so called EDUCATED AND WELL SETTLED brotherns of ours and once that is done we can show the path to others. Let us not try to prove ourselves the Intelectuals which we suppose are not. This kinda stand puts me to real pain and i fail to understand the logic behind these utterances time and again. Hope it is not a perpetual design to devide Jats on Secular and Non-secular lines[just to create uneasiness on the site]. For those who intend doing that, my request to them will be to go through the History and see the sacrifices made by our fore-fathers in keeping this name JAT intect till date...of which we are proud of [includind those who are trying to preach PSUEDO-SECULARISM]. THERE CAN NOT BE AND WILL NOT BE A RACE MORE SECULAR THAN JATS EVER IN THE HISTORY. I AM PROUD OF MY KAUM FIRST AND THEN ANYTHING ELSE. LET US KEEP THIS SITE FOR JATS ONLY AS WE NEED IT FOR OURSELVES. PLEASE OPEN A SITE BY THE NAME 'SECULAR SITE' and let me see how many people visit there. Who says don't mix around with whole freternity and be tolarent of all humans and animals but we can still do that with this site being marked exclusively for HINDU JATS.By doing so we are not creating a communal divide at all. I meet people from all walks of life each day and exchange my views fairly and freely and have respect for their sentiments too. Open this site for all and take from me...NOT A SINGLE JAT MEMBER WILL BE SEEN OUT HERE ON THIS SITE.


Regards

 

[mukeshkumar007]

Go Through this article :-

http://www.bhaskar.com/defaults/editorial_newshindi1.html

 

[raj2rif]

My personal views please:AND MAY I REDPECTFULLY SUBMIT?


Why not this site be for JATS exclusive? There are crores of sites on the NET and crores of people visit these sites every day and if we are averse to the idea of identification and pride in self then why write DAHIYA,HOODA,TEVATHIA,MALIK,RATHEE,BURDAK,PILANIA,JAKHAR etc infront of our names. I tolerate all religions and castes and hate nothing, inspite of my being a strong propegator of JAT WELL BEING. Why we suffer from this complex always and this ghost of JATS/NON JATS COMES ALIVE every third day here on JATLAND. Because of this undesired controvercy many decent and well meaning friends of ours have left this site, which i feel could have been avoided. Who stops anybody from going to some Bania,Sindhi,Punjabi,Negro,Marwadi or any other SO CALLED 'SECULAR" site and preach secularism out there. Agar hamnei ghar banaya hei to appne privar ke liye banaya hai, Sab ke liye bistar nahin lagayenge. Let us first sort out our house ;which is on fire and needs the selfless contribution from so called EDUCATED AND WELL SETTLED brotherns of ours and once that is done we can show the path to others. Let us not try to prove ourselves the Intelectuals which we suppose are not. This kinda stand puts me to real pain and i fail to understand the logic behind these utterances time and again. Hope it is not a perpetual design to devide Jats on Secular and Non-secular lines[just to create uneasiness on the site]. For those who intend doing that, my request to them will be to go through the History and see the sacrifices made by our fore-fathers in keeping this name JAT intect till date...of which we are proud of [includind those who are trying to preach SUDO-SECULARISM]. THERE CAN NOT BE AND WILL NOT BE A RACE MORE SECULAR THAN JATS EVER IN THE HISTORY. I AM PROUD OF MY KAUM FIRST AND THEN ANYTHING ELSE. LET US KEEP THIS SITE FOR JATS ONLY AS WE NEED IT FOR OURSELVES. PLEASE OPEN A SITE BY THE NAME 'SECULAR SIGHT' and let me see how many people visit there. Who says don't mix around with whole freternity and be tolarent of all humans and animals but we can do that with this site being marked exclusively for HINDU JATS.By doing so we are not creating a communal divide at all. I meet people from all walks of life each day and exchange my views fairly and freely and have respect for their sentiments too. Open this site for all and take from me...NOT A SINGLE JAT MEMBER WILL BE SEEN OUT HERE ON THIS SITE.

Regards

Dear Mr. Dahiya,

Once again the focus of discussion on the thread meant to discuss India's stand on IAEA resolution has shifted to some thing other than that.
Now let me address the issue you are raising here with the hope that the replies on this issue should be coming to me in my message box or on another thread to discuss this issue in its entirety.
Firstly I am as proud of being a Jat as any one else on this site or any where else if not more. I am not saying that we should not be proud of it, what I am trying to convey here is the duplicity of opinion, as on one side we distinguish with in the Jat community at large and on other we complain that the castism is eroding the very fibre of our democracy and is a curse to our nation's progress. Having said that, on this very site the idea had come to call it Haryana.com, Unless we broden our views, the days are not far when people may come up with idea of suggesting to call this site as rohtak.com or for that matter dahiya.com for it was started by Mr. Nitin Dahiya. By all means let this site be only for Hindu Jats or Maliks, Tevathias or Dahiyas, does not matter to me. If I have to interact with larger section of society I am sure I can or that matter all of us can find our way. But then, if we want to restrict this to only Hindu Jats then for God's sake please don't complain that our contry is sufferring from the castism for we ourselves are dividing the Jat community at large and thus have no reason to complain.

Now in my views if we welcome all Jats whether Hindu or Sikh as many people call them, then we are just making JAT a bigger and larger thing than Hindu or Sikh. Rest is all individual choices.

 

[devdahiya]

READ YOUR PREVIOUS POST COL Virendra

Dear Mr. Dahiya,

Once again the focus of discussion on the thread meant to discuss India's stand on IAEA resolution has shifted to some thing other than that.
Now let me address the issue you are raising here with the hope that the replies on this issue should be coming to me in my message box or on another thread to discuss this issue in its entirety.
Firstly I am as proud of being a Jat as any one else on this site or any where else if not more. I am not saying that we should not be proud of it, what I am trying to convey here is the duplicity of opinion, as on one side we distinguish with in the Jat community at large and on other we complain that the castism is eroding the very fibre of our democracy and is a curse to our nation's progress. Having said that, on this very site the idea had come to call it Haryana.com, Unless we broden our views, the days are not far when people may come up with idea of suggesting to call this site as rohtak.com or for that matter dahiya.com for it was started by Mr. Nitin Dahiya. By all means let this site be only for Hindu Jats or Maliks, Tevathias or Dahiyas, does not matter to me. If I have to interact with larger section of society I am sure I can or that matter all of us can find our way. But then, if we want to restrict this to only Hindu Jats then for God's sake please don't complain that our contry is sufferring from the castism for we ourselves are dividing the Jat community at large and thus have no reason to complain.

Now in my views if we welcome all Jats whether Hindu or Sikh as many people call them, then we are just making JAT a bigger and larger thing than Hindu or Sikh. Rest is all individual choices.

Dear Col Virendra,


Pardon me my quoting your previous post as bringing around the ghost of cast and creed [if you can have a closer look at it once again please] I stand by my statement as it is and will not be with in my right to contradict you too as you are entitled to your Quotes. Let Nitin do what he pleases, as he is not under obligation to ask YOU or ME regarding the future of this site and hence would not like to assume things in his behest. You are elder and respect worthy and hence i would like to maintain those relations as cordial as possible. As regards to your advise of flooding your mail box..i am affraid that you could have taken the lead in this regard, as i too have a mail box. Anyways thanx for the inputs in response to my post.


warm regards.

 

[devdahiya]

What is there in it

Go Through this article :-

http://www.bhaskar.com/defaults/editorial_newshindi1.html

Mukesh bhai...what is there in this clip? we read thousands of clips like this each day.We need no testimony from these kinda people. You please say what you personally feel and forget about these JANSATAS and Dainik bhaskars. These people report as per their affiliations and hence can not be taken seriously at all.

 

[rkumar]

Mukesh bhai...what is there in this clip? we read thousands of clips like this each day.We need no testimony from these kinda people. You please say what you personally feel and forget about these JANSATAS and Dainik bhaskars. These people report as per their affiliations and hence can not be taken seriously at all.

Dahiya Ji,

Its not Jansatta or Dainik Bhaskar who is saying. The paper is just reporting the views of well informed persons on the issue. G. Parthasarthy is a well known, well informed and highly qualified person on the subject. If you think G. Parthsarthy is also not qualified to say on the subject then I don't think there is anyone in India better than him, except K. Subramanian. Hope you have read what K. Subramanian has written on the subject.

RK^2

 

[devdahiya]

Due respect to G.Parthasarthy and K. Subharmanian

Dahiya Ji,

Its not Jansatta or Dainik Bhaskar who is saying. The paper is just reporting the views of well informed persons on the issue. G. Parthasarthy is a well known, well informed and highly qualified person on the subject. If you think G. Parthsarthy is also not qualified to say on the subject then I don't think there is anyone in India better than him, except K. Subramanian. Hope you have read what K. Subramanian has written on the subject.

RK^2

Rajendra ji, With due regards to the standings of Two and more gentlemen, i would like to submit that this so called master stroke on part of India will have far reaching consequences for India as it was not a ethical stand on the part of India. We have to wait and see sir. I have read both the gentlemen mentioned by you not on this issue only but on many issues.Lets hope for the best.

 

[spdeshwal]

Dahiyaji,

I don't know whether it was a master stroke or a slave stroke. But one thing I am sure that India must stop the Muslim 'Tushtikaran' internally and externally. A Hydrabadi ( born and brought up in the heart of India) confidently says that Kashmir will be a free nation one day. That is why it was necessary to give a lesson that you can't take India for Granted.

I must make a mention here that i have lived with an Iranian guy as a flatmate for almost one year. He had all the respect for India and Indians. But his greatest hero is Bin Laden. Therefore, you can imagine where will be there sympathies at the crunch time 'here or there'.

Jahna tak sawal hai gas pipe line and other issue of trade, it is mutual. It was a business deal and not a special favour to India.

 

[captmanjeet]

Things are changing??/

Hi friends,
In my earlier post on the same thread i was bit worried about india going for the change of its age old stand but reading and re reading over the issues again and again plus the latest developements arount the world such as below makes me firm slowly but steadily that things are changing to good.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/20raman.htm

regarding the site for hindu jats and non hindu jats and other in house problems i think we need some different thread.Both dahiya sahib and tevatia sir, i think things are getting a bit rough as it appears from the posts.
manjeet

 

[raj2rif]

That is Exactly What I had said.

Hi friends,
In my earlier post on the same thread i was bit worried about india going for the change of its age old stand but reading and re reading over the issues again and again plus the latest developements arount the world such as below makes me firm slowly but steadily that things are changing to good.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/20raman.htm

regarding the site for hindu jats and non hindu jats and other in house problems i think we need some different thread.Both dahiya sahib and tevatia sir, i think things are getting a bit rough as it appears from the posts.
manjeet

Dear Capt Manjeet Singh,

That is exactly what I had requested to members that let this thread be devoted to the subject for which it was started. And therefore requested the replies to my personal mail box. Any way I think we are mature enough and would not let the things become rough.

Regarding India's stand, I have been the believer as far as our foreign policy goes, that we need to see our national interests first, rather than past history. Some times, if we continue what we had been doing, we may be taken for granted by nations. Thus we need to take an independent stand based on issues and as they affect our national interests.

Both school of thoughts expressed on this forum by the members have merit. The old school of though supporting Iran on the issue is more concerned about the credibility issue which is very important. The new stand taken by India is more oriented towards the economic issues I guess, which is important too. We all are commenting based on the information each one of us have. As the chapters unfold, we all would know more about it. Let us see what happens?