Is China now really become a concern for india?

Dear Mr. Hooda,
Mr. Manmohan Singh has been PM only for little over 5 years, if the situation has not changed in 20 Years, then why single him out alone. Like it or not, he is at least doing his job honestly and is respected across the board.

Respected Sir,

Unresolved situation of last 20 years does not give Mr. Manmohan Singh the authority to remain mute on the issue. Yes, solely blaming him for this is also not justified. But he has been PM for last 5 years and will be there for next 5 too. We even can not handle countries like Bangladesh, Nepal and Srilanka properly,forget china and Pakistan.
 
ye bimaari to ajaadi ke samaye hi suru ho gayi thee.aap dekho kin logono ne raj sambhaalaa thaa(noukersaha aur neta) aur kon log desh ke persashek they,unnhi ki aulaad aaj bhi desh per kabjaa ker key baithee hai.unsey koi ummeed rakhanaa bekaar hai.bharat ko izzet chaahiye aur bhaartiyon ko sir uthaa ke jeena hai to krantee ki jaroorat hai.nahi to khaam khaa thook bilonaa hai.

Mr. Can you define what is kranti??????, sirf kranti kranti chllane se kranti nahi aati
 
Hardly...

Neither India nor China can afford war (Indo-China) and both know it well. :)

Even other countries can NOT afford Indo-China war;:D 40% of the world's population and a significant (and expanding) middle class in both countries literally dictate the world economics.. :D

Anyways, one related article published in 'The Hindu' few days back. I choose to agree with the author.

http://www.thehindu.com/2009/10/12/stories/2009101255150800.htm

You are absolutely right, no one can afford was at this time, ye progress karne ka time , koi pagal hi hoga jo ab ladai se apna time or power barbad karega
 
Manmohan Singh speaks like an idiot, is actually only like a caretaker PM and the real power is with Italian lady Sonia Gandhi, acts like a servant of Gandhis, is only their till low IQ guy Rahul is "ready" to be PM. ManMohan Singh signed off on sharm El declaration/agreement? whatever with Pakistanis. He himself said "Rahul is ready to be PM now." Yes he is just a caretaker PM.
Yes he is a zombie, a disgrace. In his watch took place mumbai attacks. Any person watching them live on TV would laugh upon knowing that it took black cat whatever commondoes (sic!) what 24 hours?? to come from New Delhi to Mumbai and these commandoes (sic!) lacked basic equipment to fight terrorists!
That he could not do something about stupid Indian media broadcasting live the ongoing operation and that terrorist handlers were getting their information from these idiots!
Yes he is a disgrace, a zombie, and a useless person.

Mr Hooda Don't talk all bullshits, Mr PM is doing well
 
1. The problem is not with china. it is with our strength and character as a nation.
2. We are not able to send strong message to pakistan, bengladesh, nepal, sri lanka,. What strong message we will give to china.
3. We have no national character and unity except jumping behind a cricket team.
4. National interest priorities rate very low for our politicians and our people.
we have a lethargic and laid back attitude.

koe balak sahma sa kamjor sa bus ki seat pai baithya ho tai koe bhi dhamka diya karai ar seat pai jaagah banwa liya karai apne taain. ye to fir bhi kai lakh sqkm zameen ki baat hai.

india is a sleeping elephant, it needs to be shaken awake
navin's quot's are perfact.
 
Manmohan Singh speaks like an idiot, is actually only like a caretaker PM and the real power is with Italian lady Sonia Gandhi, acts like a servant of Gandhis, is only their till low IQ guy Rahul is "ready" to be PM. ManMohan Singh signed off on sharm El declaration/agreement? whatever with Pakistanis. He himself said "Rahul is ready to be PM now." Yes he is just a caretaker PM.
Yes he is a zombie, a disgrace. In his watch took place mumbai attacks. Any person watching them live on TV would laugh upon knowing that it took black cat whatever commondoes (sic!) what 24 hours?? to come from New Delhi to Mumbai and these commandoes (sic!) lacked basic equipment to fight terrorists!
That he could not do something about stupid Indian media broadcasting live the ongoing operation and that terrorist handlers were getting their information from these idiots!
Yes he is a disgrace, a zombie, and a useless person.
yes i am totaly agree with hooda.you know the maharastra govt. knows that black cat are comming but they could not able to arrange the transporatation for them. it took 6 hours for a half n hour journy.only 20 K.M. from taj.they are totaly zero in planing and co-ordination. this PM is basicali a babu who can do chaatukaaritaa, not a leader and why he is there,only some people knows the fact.
 
Mr. Can you define what is kranti??????, sirf kranti kranti chllane se kranti nahi aati
kraanti-2 chillaney se hi kraanti aati hey.bhaarat per jo sashan ker rahey hein we sab kaale angeraej hein.ye sab goron ke chamchey yaa fir unki aulaad hein jinohney aengerajon ke saath mil ker bhaartiyon kaa khoon bahaayaa thaa.
AHINSAA KAMJORON KI AAD HEY.
 
China is no danger to India.Please try to understand the dynamics.Till such time USA is strong,China dare not venture into any misadventure against India.Also India is no baby.Please relax and do not make mountains out of mole hills.
 
I am submitting my views & not criticising any body. I fully agree that war is not in the interest of both the countries & US is little detrent but psychological detrent only which is known to china well. knowing chinese, their characterstics, way of working, past history & latest intelligence available, one can say that china is fully prepared for war militarily, economically & politically but she may not initiate the war rather force the totally sleeping India to attack and suffer heavy losses militarily, economically & politically. In my view the US will be more comfortable if India & china remain busy, occupied & their economic progress slows down. I also agree with those who says that today India is not like 62, but we shouldnot forget that china has increased its strength more than India. Though, our defence forces are capable, careful & visilent, but they are part of the sleeping nation, have to follow the national policy & not free in decision making, hence I am worried & hope that they are not pushed into war suddenly before they fully open their eyes, pickup their outdated weapons & useless equipment, collect required information, update their knowledge & training, coordinate etc like 62. US is neither keen nor capable of helping India except giving some out dated weapons & equipment, we should not be under false impression please.
 
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I am submitting my views & not criticising any body. I fully agree that war is not in the interest of both the countries & US is little detrent but psychological detrent only which is known to china well. knowing chinese, their characterstics, way of working, past history & latest intelligence available, one can say that china is fully prepared for war militarily, economically & politically but she may not initiate the war rather force the totally sleeping India to attack and suffer heavy losses militarily, economically & politically. In my view the US will be more comfortable if India & china remain busy, occupied & their economic progress slows down. I also agree with those who says that today India is not like 62, but we shouldnot forget that china has increased its strength more than India. Though, our defence forces are capable, careful & visilent, but they are part of the sleeping nation, have to follow the national policy & not free in decision making, hence I am worried & hope that they are not pushed into war suddenly before they fully open their eyes, pickup their outdated weapons & useless equipment, collect required information, update their knowledge & training, coordinate etc like 62. US is neither keen nor capable of helping India except giving some out dated weapons & equipment, we should not be under false impression please.
I think US is more keen on engaging India and China into war. That would eventually take away the newly shifted power in Asia back to Western World.
 
I am submitting my views & not criticising any body. I fully agree that war is not in the interest of both the countries & US is little detrent but psychological detrent only which is known to china well. knowing chinese, their characterstics, way of working, past history & latest intelligence available, one can say that china is fully prepared for war militarily, economically & politically but she may not initiate the war rather force the totally sleeping India to attack and suffer heavy losses militarily, economically & politically. In my view the US will be more comfortable if India & china remain busy, occupied & their economic progress slows down. I also agree with those who says that today India is not like 62, but we shouldnot forget that china has increased its strength more than India. Though, our defence forces are capable, careful & visilent, but they are part of the sleeping nation, have to follow the national policy & not free in decision making, hence I am worried & hope that they are not pushed into war suddenly before they fully open their eyes, pickup their outdated weapons & useless equipment, collect required information, update their knowledge & training, coordinate etc like 62. US is neither keen nor capable of helping India except giving some out dated weapons & equipment, we should not be under false impression please.



Easier said than done.We are trying to paint China as too big a monster.There are problems galore in China.Just because Chine does take a intimidating posture every now and then does not imply that it has the unsurmountable capabilities.Only advantage with China is that world knows as much about chinese capabilities as much as china tells the world and that makes this country a suspect but that can be anything.I mean an empty vessel too.So chinese posturing may be a design to let the world keep gussing.And even if chinese capabilities are worth something,they would like to enhance them further quitely to kick US at right time and hence least they can even think of misadventure at this point of time.they are intelligent nation and know very well that taking on India means a great deal of destruction on their soil too and that risk China will never take,posturing not withstnding.
 
My Views

I am submitting my views & not criticising any body. I fully agree that war is not in the interest of both the countries & US is little detrent but psychological detrent only which is known to china well. knowing chinese, their characterstics, way of working, past history & latest intelligence available, one can say that china is fully prepared for war militarily, economically & politically but she may not initiate the war rather force the totally sleeping India to attack and suffer heavy losses militarily, economically & politically. In my view the US will be more comfortable if India & china remain busy, occupied & their economic progress slows down. I also agree with those who says that today India is not like 62, but we shouldnot forget that china has increased its strength more than India. Though, our defence forces are capable, careful & visilent, but they are part of the sleeping nation, have to follow the national policy & not free in decision making, hence I am worried & hope that they are not pushed into war suddenly before they fully open their eyes, pickup their outdated weapons & useless equipment, collect required information, update their knowledge & training, coordinate etc like 62. US is neither keen nor capable of helping India except giving some out dated weapons & equipment, we should not be under false impression please.

It is an interesting discussion, where we have different views about a super power’s intentions, capabilities and our own capabilities. Some views are pretty objective while some are still influenced with the political parties we are affiliated with.

Let us talk about as to what has changed since 1962. Firstly, we have Sikkim as part of our union now, and that is a BIG strategic advantage. I have written earlier on as to how Sikkim’s accession to India helps us strategically in the war against China.

The second thing is, we are occupying Siachin Glacier Heights. That gives us another advantage to monitor trans border movements through Karakoram and observation on road coming through Aksaichin to Tibbet, the likely battle field in the event of a War with China.

I have already talked about the technical advantage of our airfields nearly at sea level to the proximity of Chinese border as against limitations of Chinese air crafts taking of from high altitude air fields.

We manufacture most of our defense equipment indigenously, as well as we do have some good relations with the countries those can supply us with equipments in the emergency. For this today we do have enough foreign reserves to pay for.

We do have a much more efficient and well equipped Navy to dominate movements in the India ocean. Remember both India and China are heavily dependent on the middle eastern oil. No matter how wonderful air crafts and tanks we may have, but they all need a lot of oil, and hence our compulsion to have good relations with the OPEC countries. China is extremely keen on having a pipeline from Iran through Pakistan for this purpose, but technically how easy it would be can be anybody’s guess.

Local support within our own border states for China is likely to be minimum, since the residents of these states have tasted the democracy, and media gives enough exposure to the problem of living in a communist society. Further the events of Tibbet are less likely to encourage anyone to support a Chinese invasion/occupation. Contrary to this, we are likely to have a support from the local population in Tibbet.

But all is not green and gold for us. We do have problems too. We need to be extremely sensitive to the communist influence in Nepal, and must monitor activities in Bhutan.

Wars are costly both in terms of men and material. With both countries having nuclear weapons, it is likely to happen in the event when the entire world gives up the diplomatic means. Both India and China are the big markets for countries across the globe. Hence I don’t see a war between these two countries at all out level. Small border skirmishes will always continue. What we need to do is maintain a strong posture, and reply each intrusion with strength both locally by military means and internationally by diplomatic means.
Let us not blame US and rest of the world for all our problems. We are one of the oldest civilization, and are a resource rich country, yet, small contingents from the Islamic Countries looted us and then ruled us for centuries. This also resulted in a lot of locals converting to Islam both willingly and forcefully. Then came a business entity called East India Company and ruled us for two centuries. We boast too much about our achievements, bravery and what not, but the fact of the matter is that inspite of being the decendents of Ram, Krisha, and Ashok, we have been ruled by foreign powers for several centuries. I see only one reason, we have a whole lot of Jats, Brahmins, Banias, Gujars, Chamars, Punjabis, Madrasies and what not, but have a very few Indians. We blame every one for our miseries, but don't learn lessons from the history.
 
I think US is more keen on engaging India and China into war. That would eventually take away the newly shifted power in Asia back to Western World.

Correct and even its our fault if seek some once help if u are not capable to defend your self than ur destiny will anyways be slave. Its not like that we can't defend ourself but Patriotism is missing here, people are not ready to take it on priority. Corruption and dishonesty has taken over every other thing in our life.
China was almost like us 10-15 years back but Chiness have reacted very well and they r turning out super power in the world.
We can also do that but we have to understand the necessity of that else worst yet to come for us.
Pakistan, Afganistan now china we can't grow like this.
 
It is an interesting discussion, where we have different views about a super power’s intentions, capabilities and our own capabilities. Some views are pretty objective while some are still influenced with the political parties we are affiliated with.

Let us talk about as to what has changed since 1962. Firstly, we have Sikkim as part of our union now, and that is a BIG strategic advantage. I have written earlier on as to how Sikkim’s accession to India helps us strategically in the war against China.

The second thing is, we are occupying Siachin Glacier Heights. That gives us another advantage to monitor trans border movements through Karakoram and observation on road coming through Aksaichin to Tibbet, the likely battle field in the event of a War with China.

I have already talked about the technical advantage of our airfields nearly at sea level to the proximity of Chinese border as against limitations of Chinese air crafts taking of from high altitude air fields.

We manufacture most of our defense equipment indigenously, as well as we do have some good relations with the countries those can supply us with equipments in the emergency. For this today we do have enough foreign reserves to pay for.

We do have a much more efficient and well equipped Navy to dominate movements in the India ocean. Remember both India and China are heavily dependent on the middle eastern oil. No matter how wonderful air crafts and tanks we may have, but they all need a lot of oil, and hence our compulsion to have good relations with the OPEC countries. China is extremely keen on having a pipeline from Iran through Pakistan for this purpose, but technically how easy it would be can be anybody’s guess.

Local support within our own border states for China is likely to be minimum, since the residents of these states have tasted the democracy, and media gives enough exposure to the problem of living in a communist society. Further the events of Tibbet are less likely to encourage anyone to support a Chinese invasion/occupation. Contrary to this, we are likely to have a support from the local population in Tibbet.

But all is not green and gold for us. We do have problems too. We need to be extremely sensitive to the communist influence in Nepal, and must monitor activities in Bhutan.

Wars are costly both in terms of men and material. With both countries having nuclear weapons, it is likely to happen in the event when the entire world gives up the diplomatic means. Both India and China are the big markets for countries across the globe. Hence I don’t see a war between these two countries at all out level. Small border skirmishes will always continue. What we need to do is maintain a strong posture, and reply each intrusion with strength both locally by military means and internationally by diplomatic means.
Let us not blame US and rest of the world for all our problems. We are one of the oldest civilization, and are a resource rich country, yet, small contingents from the Islamic Countries looted us and then ruled us for centuries. This also resulted in a lot of locals converting to Islam both willingly and forcefully. Then came a business entity called East India Company and ruled us for two centuries. We boast too much about our achievements, bravery and what not, but the fact of the matter is that inspite of being the decendents of Ram, Krisha, and Ashok, we have been ruled by foreign powers for several centuries. I see only one reason, we have a whole lot of Jats, Brahmins, Banias, Gujars, Chamars, Punjabis, Madrasies and what not, but have a very few Indians. We blame every one for our miseries, but don't learn lessons from the history.

Brother you have brought out lot of good poits for & against. Let me make it clear that I belong to no political party, I do have friends in almost all parties, ofcourse I do discuss performence of all political outfits as per my understanding. The fact is that there is no other verth political party to have effiliation & the congress had always been cool towards jawans & kishans, wethere you agree or not but the fact is fact. both the above classes didnot get proper attention in the rule of any party. Brother, do you feel that our national security, chinese border & defence forces are getting due attention, care & importance, are we prepared militarily& diplomatically against china. Sikkim little advantage but what is use of sitting on siachin when chinese constructing roads, buildings next to our troops. we are only obsereving they are working & slowly acheiving their goals.as far as ground mobility is concern, they are certainly batter. We do have little advantage in taking off air efforts but what for china is spending a huge money & time in our all neigbour contaries. Is it not a achievement of china to have batter relations with our neigbours, where as we are really sleeping .Nueclear capability of both side is definitely a detrent & if we read the intention of china well we will realise that china will not go for a full war but at the same time she will keep on bothering you every day and keepon biting small pieces of our land, keep you away from Tiebet & internal problems of china. Nobody can deny the fact that china has gone much ahead of us in economic development, diplomacy, nueclear & defence preparedness. Increasing chinese influence in all our neigbour countries is to keep your Navy engaged. As far as the market is concern, I thing it is otherwise, slowly the whole world is becoming market for chinese goods. Brother many thing I cannot express here but tell me honestly, are our leaders irrespective of any part, really bothered for the nation, are our defence forces really prepared, do our troops fully motivated/satisfied/happy. when your troops are not comfortable than people of border states can make no difference. On top of all,....when I was doing my masters in history, I had one paper as chinese history. There appeared almost every annual exam, a question that Britishers along with Americans entered china much earlier than India but still couldnot partitioned her, why? ofcourse the answer included many points but most important was that chinese had strong national character, which Indian has not deeloped even now. Anyway col virender your points are relevent & meaningful, thanks.
 
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'Befriend the far and attack the near'

Does Dream/Obsession of India to become superpower putting us in an awkward position in South Asia?

I mean, considering our current relationship with neighbour countries,sometimes i thought are we ourself at fault? Does we India pursues a foreign policy of 'befriend the far and attack the near'.

Look at the relations of china with its neighbour and look at our's.How many firends we have? None! China is everywhere today:Pakistan,Nepal,Bangladeshetc...where are we?..guarding Siachin and helplessly watching Chinese constructing road across boarder.

Russia and China are developing an intense strategic partnership, India's traditional ties with Moscow have significantly weakened under the current pro-US leadership in Delhi and now, India's normalization process with China has suffered a severe setback.

At the same time, Russia has begun a serious attempt to choreograph a positive relationship with Pakistan. China, of course enjoys an "all-weather friendship" with Pakistan.

Indian policies are asserted on the assumption that a China-US clash is inevitable as China's surge as a world power has become unstoppable, and US will have use of Delhi as a counterweight to China. India is estimated to be the biggest arms buyer in the world and a market estimated to be worth US$100 billion is presenting itself to exploitation by American arms manufacturers. India is very much dependent on US for almost everything.

What does our bureaucrats and top defense officials do? The smart ones among the retired generals and top bureaucrats take up residence in Delhi's suburbs and overnight transform themselves into "strategic thinkers" and begin networking with some American think-tank or the other, while probing a new lease on life as brokers or commission agents for arms manufacturers. Are these bureaucrates accountable to anyone or it is not necessary? International community has alloted India the distinction of being one of the most corrupt countries on the planet and it is an open secret that India's arms procurement program provides a vast avenue to pipe out national wealth.

The Americans are vastly experienced with the Indians, they know well enough where and how to tickle Indian vanities. How they shows fresh dreams to the Indians and pick up the fruits of their efforts will be watched or being watched not only by the many of Indians but also by the Pakistanis, Chinese and the Russians.
 
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I think US is more keen on engaging India and China into war. That would eventually take away the newly shifted power in Asia back to Western World.[/QUOTE



Of course yes.Why should US think of Indian interest any way.Sawaari apne saaman ki khuud jimmedar hei.
 
Brother Malik, you have added very good points to the discussion. what a insult for our nation, where china questions visit of our PM to one of our state, also she is forcing you to react & get trept & surprisingly most of our people who matter, have closed their eyes & are trying to justify their inaction. how are our leaders, their advisors & defence leadership is tolreting the presence of chinese in POK. How are we allowing flooding our markets by chinese goods. how are we keeping quite on china taking away our good friends like USSR, Nepal, myamar,Srilanka, bhutan etc.God save the country
 
I am not linking you to any party Sir,

Brother you have brought out lot of good poits for & against. Let me make it clear that I belong to no political party, I do have friends in almost all parties, ofcourse I do discuss performence of all political outfits as per my understanding. The fact is that there is no other verth political party to have effiliation & the congress had always been cool towards jawans & kishans, wethere you agree or not but the fact is fact. both the above classes didnot get proper attention in the rule of any party. Brother, do you feel that our national security, chinese border & defence forces are getting due attention, care & importance, are we prepared militarily& diplomatically against china. Sikkim little advantage but what is use of sitting on siachin when chinese constructing roads, buildings next to our troops. we are only obsereving they are working & slowly acheiving their goals.as far as ground mobility is concern, they are certainly batter. We do have little advantage in taking off air efforts but what for china is spending a huge money & time in our all neigbour contaries. Is it not a achievement of china to have batter relations with our neigbours, where as we are really sleeping .Nueclear capability of both side is definitely a detrent & if we read the intention of china well we will realise that china will not go for a full war but at the same time she will keep on bothering you every day and keepon biting small pieces of our land, keep you away from Tiebet & internal problems of china. Nobody can deny the fact that china has gone much ahead of us in economic development, diplomacy, nueclear & defence preparedness. Increasing chinese influence in all our neigbour countries is to keep your Navy engaged. As far as the market is concern, I thing it is otherwise, slowly the whole world is becoming market for chinese goods. Brother many thing I cannot express here but tell me honestly, are our leaders irrespective of any part, really bothered for the nation, are our defence forces really prepared, do our troops fully motivated/satisfied/happy. when your troops are not comfortable than people of border states can make no difference. On top of all,....when I was doing my masters in history, I had one paper as chinese history. There appeared almost every annual exam, a question that Britishers along with Americans entered china much earlier than India but still couldnot partitioned her, why? ofcourse the answer included many points but most important was that chinese had strong national character, which Indian has not deeloped even now. Anyway col virender your points are relevent & meaningful, thanks.

Dear Mr. Kharab Ji,
Firstly, I think you have a wrong impression that I am trying to link you with any Political Party. There is nothing wrong in aligning with any political party of choice, for that is what the democracy is all about. My point is that no matter what political party one represents, the issue should be discussed without any prejudice, and only then the discussion could be meaningful.
You are a student of History and that is great. You probably would then understand that there are at least three levels where the subject matter is decided. Firstly at Diplomatic level, then at Strategic level and then at Tactical Level. Each level has its scope in shaping the things.
The success or failure in China is not because of character, but also because of resources and communications. India had been much more developed country couple of centuries ago as compared to most countries and that is why it was the destination for most businesses, immigrants and robbers. So, doing business, and mingling with the population was much more easier in Indian subcontinent then cross the Himalayas. Further, there was Japanese factor too.
Coming to the issues you have raised about motivation of Jawans, our presence in Siachen Glacier and its effects on road construction by China. If China is constructing roads in Tibet, a territory which is not part of our country, we really can’t do anything legally to stop that. We can question the utility of it which can easily be justified by the host nation. Our presence however does give us advantage to monitor any military build up and serves as an early warning to war. It also serves us to disrupt such build up in the event of hostilities.
I have already mentioned that we need to develop the ground communication systems on our Eastern Borders. Regulation of Brahmputra water is another thing that we need to address seriously. I think a Korean firm got the contract to build some tunnels in that area to improve the road communication system.
Why our discussion go haywire is because inspite of valuable information being available on internet, we hardly carry out any research and echo the statements made by some local politicians to woo the votes, in their bid to get elected. They make statement related to international relations in front of public with a lot of spices added to it, and that mobilizes them to vote for them. Many in the public may not be knowing half the places in their own states, but after hearing these leaders, I can assure you, they will educate you on delicate issues of international relations. There is a lot one can write on Indo-China relations, but then we all have limitation of time. Break time till next post.
 
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