Jats Against Reservations

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Mera gaam sai asaudha..jaake boojh liyo main kitni baar badoon soon...Jab koi vaad vivad ho raha hota hai, to mudde pe baat karte hain, mudde pe baat karne waalon pe nahin...

Tere points ka main pehle jawaab de chuka hoon...Jib reservation ho jaaga to jo 60% thaali haande sai (survey kiya tha ke?), kitne % ko naukri mil jaagi? Aur jib survey karr hi raha sai to nyun bhi dekhiyo, ki jin castes ko reservation mila hua hai unke ke halaat sai, aur jinhonain nahin mila hua, unke ke halaat sai. Aur rahi baat jugaad ki, to woh to bhikhari bhi karr lete hain.

bhaiyooo yoo fer galat jikra thaa diya .........bhai manee ek baat bataoo reservation main dikaat ke s.............pehle hi hum 3 state main reserved ho chuke s ............ar ye baaat aap sabhi budhijivi log hi kyun ise oppose kar rahe hai ...............ar vaise te jataaan ke naam ke sabte pehlam jhande thaaa loo sooo ar fer kise ek k bhi kam nahi aanaa kam te jab aaao jab kade gam main bad ke dekhya hooo.............gaom aaj 60% balak bina naukri ke hande s ,.....kite farm bareee s .....waiting main num aave s te reservation ale aaja s ude .. te bhai or koi si caste is reservation ne l s te hum kyun na le le ..ar rahi baat ......ki mahri bejtii ho ja ki te bhai ya te hoo li 2/3 state main pehlam ..unte puchooo unne kitaaak bhunda bole s ude


tham ne na chahiyeee jisne chahiye uskhtr te dekh looo

risss bhi jabhi karni chahiyee jab kite koi jugad hoo khaliii pade pade risss ka bhi kime na hota .................




jai shri ram
 
Mera gaam sai asaudha..jaake boojh liyo main kitni baar badoon soon...Jab koi vaad vivad ho raha hota hai, to mudde pe baat karte hain, mudde pe baat karne waalon pe nahin...

Tere points ka main pehle jawaab de chuka hoon...Jib reservation ho jaaga to jo 60% thaali haande sai (survey kiya tha ke?), kitne % ko naukri mil jaagi? Aur jib survey karr hi raha sai to nyun bhi dekhiyo, ki jin castes ko reservation mila hua hai unke ke halaat sai, aur jinhonain nahin mila hua, unke ke halaat sai. Aur rahi baat jugaad ki, to woh to bhikhari bhi karr lete hain.[/quot


haan bhai survey hi kar rakhya s ...........bhai baat eb % ki hi kar di t 1 % ne hi miljagi t 59%hoojangee 60 na reh fer ...............jin ko mila hua vee bhi nue s jukar aaj hum bina reservation s .....kunsa bhikari isa s mere bhai jiska jugad s............kiseka hoo te bataeyee bhai mere



 
those who atre opposing jat reservation..
just see the progres sof yadavs in UP and bihar..

after the implementation of mandal commsion in 90's ...in last 15-20 years..yadavs progressed alot..both politically an economically..

ek time pe bihar main thakuron ka aur kayasth ka varchasv tha..
they were the political force..ab yadav no1 hain wahan ..

see the situation in UP...JAATON ko bahut peeche kar diya hai yadavs ne..

haryana main hi dekh lo..PGI rohtak main kitne yadavs hain..(see the comments of jitender hooda in another thread)

humne progess kar lee hai iska matlab yeh nahee ki har jat khush hai sukhi hai..
gaon main jaakar dekho.. jaaton ki haalat.. naukri ke bina kitn eki jat criminal bante jaa rah ehai..
aur jab yadav aur gujjar obc main hain toh jat kyon nahe e..
jabki gaon main teeno ka social and ecomy status same hai..
even gujjas are highly rich in haryana jat kahin nahe ehain usnke saamen this is the fact..koree pride main kuch nahee dhara..



Yeh koi faaltu ki baat nai hai....aur iss baat kai sir bhi hai arr pair bhi aapnai nahi dikhte toh issmai mahari koi galti nai hai:d jibb tak ya baat saaf nai hogi akk kitne log nai chahte ki reservation ho aap isko be sir pair wali baat nai bol sakte.
 
Yaar, example to achhe diya karro. Let's take your points one by one. Before looking at progress of yadavs in UP and Bihar, why not look at UP and Bihar first. They are right at the bottom amongst all Indian states in all respects. So a few more yadavs got govt. jobs, but as a whole the states are in deep sh*t. Agar aap society/community ke angle se dekh rahe hain to aap ko aise steps lene chaahiye jisse sab progress karre. Warna yeh to wahi baat ho gayi ki sabki aankhein fod di, aur fir ban gaye andhon main kaane raja. Bihar and UP used to be at the fore-front in all respects after independence. In the last 60 years, they have went to the bottom because of this mindless caste-based politics. Agar koi yadav mulayam singh ya laloo ko dekhkar bahut khush hota hai ki uski kaum ne bahut progress karr li hai, to woh bahut bada dhakkan hai. Political power is important but it needs to be supplemented by social and economic power. Now look at a state like Gujarat- Gujjus have progressed by leaps and bounds not by asking for reservations but by working hard and having an open mindset. Choice is yours- you want to make Haryana a Bihar where everyone is fighting everyone else on reservations/caste, etc. or a Gujarat where people line up with their money to invest.

Rahi baat criminals ki, to reservations se kya UP aur Bihar main criminals kam ho gaye hain kya? This is an illogical point. I won't say reservations reduce or increase criminalisation. But if you are making this point, then first look at your own example of UP/Bihar who top the charts in criminalisation.

Ab aate hain gathwala bhai ki baat par. Ki 60% main se 1% ko naukri mil jaayegi. Bahut badhiya, to 1% ko milegi khairaat main naukri aur woh zindagi bhar chappal ghisenge us naukri main. Khair unki marzi, agar aise unhain khushi milti hai, to theek hai. Par ab jo baaki 59% pade hain, unmain se 10% aise honge jinmain kaabliyat hogi kuchh karne ki, par jab woh private sector main apply karenge, to general waale unhain peechhe karr denge ki yeh to reservation waale hain, inke baski kuchh nahin hai.

And finally has anyone done any analysis on which jobs the Jats will get an advantage on post-reservations? As I said earlier, govt. jobs are few now and they will only decrease in future. Usmain aisi naukriyaan zaroor hain, jismain hum bahut tadaad main hain- like police, roadways, etc. Do we benefit or suffer from reserved status on these jobs? And even for other jobs, jats are already making it through general list. It is not as if there is no competition in reserved category itself. So if we move to OBC, the net impact would only be marginal (And would be there only for a few individuals, not for the whole community).

those who atre opposing jat reservation..
just see the progres sof yadavs in UP and bihar..

after the implementation of mandal commsion in 90's ...in last 15-20 years..yadavs progressed alot..both politically an economically..

ek time pe bihar main thakuron ka aur kayasth ka varchasv tha..
they were the political force..ab yadav no1 hain wahan ..

see the situation in UP...JAATON ko bahut peeche kar diya hai yadavs ne..

haryana main hi dekh lo..PGI rohtak main kitne yadavs hain..(see the comments of jitender hooda in another thread)

humne progess kar lee hai iska matlab yeh nahee ki har jat khush hai sukhi hai..
gaon main jaakar dekho.. jaaton ki haalat.. naukri ke bina kitn eki jat criminal bante jaa rah ehai..
aur jab yadav aur gujjar obc main hain toh jat kyon nahe e..
jabki gaon main teeno ka social and ecomy status same hai..
even gujjas are highly rich in haryana jat kahin nahe ehain usnke saamen this is the fact..koree pride main kuch nahee dhara..
 
We all are discussing this topic for years now. And we are not seems to reach to a point where most of agrees. If I rephrase it, it looks like this.

All jats are against the concept of reservation.

But the way it is happening pollitically in India, many of us are not willing to be flag bearer for anti reservation any more.

So basically we are confused. Till majority of us decide either one side, nothing concrete would happen, so no political outfit back us.

On side not to members, Dosto kimme dharti na batt rahi hade, so keep your cool, please...

As far as I am concerned, I will always support Jat Mahasabha's decision, whatever it may be.
 
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I AGREE!I FEEL BAD WHEN I SEE JAT SUPPORTING AND SEEKING RESERVATIONS.WE DONT NEED ANY RESERVATIONS BECAUSE WE CAN GET WHAT WE WANT IF WE WORK HARD FOR IT.SO I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT WE ARE NOT AS WEAK AS LOWER CASTES.LIKE SAMAR KADIYAN SAID "REES KARO TOH WOH APNE SE UPPAR WALO KI KARO":cool:
bilkul sahi baat s rees karo to apne se uppar walo ki karo. yadav apne aap ko bhagwan krishan ka vansaj mante hain , ye apneaap ko bhagwan krishan ka vansaj manane wale hi iss aaraksahn ka fayaadha utha rahe to hum kyo nahi. rahi baat samaj ki to hum kissi brahman ya sunar ke saath hukka nahi pi sakte hume ye nichi cast ka mante hain , aur ye sunar bi aarakshan liye baithe s. ebb to ye brahman bi aarakshan mangan lage ...
mandal aayaog ki report puri pado sara bera pat jya ga.
 
My personal view over reservation is that it might have been a nobel idea but its implementation and our Netas politics over it have made a mess of it. Its better we get rid of this and abolish reservation on basis of cast, creed ,religion or sex. On one hand we talk of equality before law and no one is discriminated over the above mentioned criteria but on the other hand we have reservation policy and put a seal on the fact that we are a fragmented society and even our constitution endorses reservation on these parameters.

I firmly believe we need to do away with reservation on the basis of religion , cast , creed or sex. If there has to be any reservation it has to be based on economic condition and that too in higher education , assuming primary basic school education is provided to all the children. If a deserving candidate ( of any nature, no distinction being made hare ) is not able to get admission just because he/she will not be able to pay the fees should be given admission, either by reservation provision or could be handled by scholarships.
 
Hi Everyone,

I have been reading reports about Jat Mahasabha demanding reservations for Jats. Though I am new to the forums, I am sure the issue must have been discussed here earlier. As with every issue, I am sure people would have varying views. I strongly believe that reservations would do more harm than good for India in general and Jats in particular. Want to see how many like minded Jats are there and if there is something we can do to exercise influence.

Kapil

Kapil, definitely this issue[Haryana Jat's Reservation] has been discussued mamoothly and possiblities of discussing in a healthy and productive manner are always pregnant.

Raka ji has been regular with Jat Mahasabha's activities and so does various senior members from this site.He may know better scenario about the possiblities at political level.Though you may never know about the wonderful species of politicians which is similar to courtesan in all the way , about their motives.Since election are not that far , this issue may arise but not at that big level.We may hear from opposition parties(they had chances being in power but they didnt do it) boasting about this issue for their won mileage for attention.

I have been a staunch anti-reservation person in various threads here. Had some fierce encounter from members here, all healthy in means.I'm same in my approach. Talking about reservation is easier said than done.Lets invest our energies in thinking beyond it.:)
Lets answer few question:

1) Can we progress with same GENERAL category both in education as well as Jobs with same resources? Jats without reservation and better than current situation. HOW?

2) Have not we progressed being in GENERAL?

3) Can we become an enterpreneur community rather than serving more and more[if not mostly but a lot of] in Police, DTC, HR Roadways etc? Here, if Refugee community can make millions with one Juice ki Rehdi? What do we lack socially when outer people have progressed in a great way?

4) Are we insecure as ethnic race in current structure of modern society?

5) Have we ever had faced social reputation less than or like OBCs/ST in a village, city or state? Havnt this hundred year's great image given us enough courage to salavate us? Are we inferior?

6) What if not RESERVATION?


Atleast, lets debate amd introspect with a positive mindset without pushing too much.
 
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unko kuch bhi lagta ho apne status ke baare me lekin agar aapko jat hoke bhi yeh lagta hai ki they r better than us then i give up.Waise feeling is mutual hum unke saath baithne me beizzati samajhte hai.Hume woh niche lagte hai.Unche toh jat se bas Rajput hi hai aur bhi sirf kehan kehan ke....kyunki jo kuch bhi na banna woh banna bannaji :D


bilkul sahi baat s rees karo to apne se uppar walo ki karo. yadav apne aap ko bhagwan krishan ka vansaj mante hain , ye apneaap ko bhagwan krishan ka vansaj manane wale hi iss aaraksahn ka fayaadha utha rahe to hum kyo nahi. rahi baat samaj ki to hum kissi brahman ya sunar ke saath hukka nahi pi sakte hume ye nichi cast ka mante hain , aur ye sunar bi aarakshan liye baithe s. ebb to ye brahman bi aarakshan mangan lage ...
mandal aayaog ki report puri pado sara bera pat jya ga.
 
Agreed to some extent but if u mean to say that reservation will be the solution to the problem then i am sorry i won't buy this.sahuliyat aadmi ko nikamma banati hai.reservation mil gayi toh jat baalak padhna chodd denge kyunki job toh reservation tai mil hi jyagi.kyu?



dignity ar selfrespect kit s jab ...gharme koi kaman ala konya jameen s konya ...loga ke ja ke dhyadiii(labour) karni .....gharna main koi kamai ka sadhan konya kise ke farmhousa pe 3 hazar mahine ki naukri karni security guard ...dignity or self respect bhi usi ki hai jiska byonth s uski dignity ke jis dhore raat ne roti khn ke rapiyee hi na hooo or gharne 4 admi uski baat dekhte hooo...........or baat rahi self respect ....self respect main admi nue rukee mare ja ki main te jat soon main kyun reservation loon .......

Uski mill sitii na martiiii self respect usne reservation na len deti ..to voo ke keree bhukha maree..........eb thamne reservation chahiye konya ....ar jisne chahiye joo bhukha mare s usne tham nue keh do ki tere ander self respect nahi hai dignity nahi ..........voo nue bhookha mar ja s ..................ye baat apne upar na leke unkhtr sochoo jisne iski asli jaroorat s ...........

Ar nue te kitne hi rukee mar lyooo ....jab bhukhee marengee ne jab sab dignity ar self respect dharii reh ja s ...........

Ar hath ki pancho ungliya barabar nahi hotiiii...........aaap acha pahe likhe te yoo matlab na s ki agla bhi aap barga hoo ..............or eb te bhategee godde bhidate hande s dikhte bhi hongeee........

Ar baaat rahi padan likhan kiii padhaii likhaiii pache badiii naukri dhariii s mla,mantriya ke chakar ,koi rapiyee deta hande s koi kuch kare s .............fer bhi num na aaataa in padhe likha ka




te ya baat te mat kahooo
 
Agreed to some extent but if u mean to say that reservation will be the solution to the problem then i am sorry i won't buy this.sahuliyat aadmi ko nikamma banati hai.reservation mil gayi toh jat baalak padhna chodd denge kyunki job toh reservation tai mil hi jyagi.kyu?

reservation main free te na milti ...usme bas thodi asanii ho ja s ....ar chodo reservation ki baat .....nue bataooo eb hum general s humne ke fayda ho raha s general hon ka ....................nue te bata do .....

ar dalal sahb agar eb humne reservation mil gayi te humne ke ke nuksan hoojange ye bhi bataeyooo...........
 
Kapil, definitely this issue[Haryana Jat's Reservation] has been discussued mamoothly and possiblities of discussing in a healthy and productive manner are always pregnant.


Samar Sahab,

Nice framework. Let me give my thoughts on these points (in blue).

1) Can we progress with same GENERAL category both in education as well as Jobs with same resources? Jats without reservation and better than current situation. HOW?

For progress, one doesn't need reservations. On the contrary, reservations lead to a slow and steady degradation. There is a natural limit to reservations. You can't expect private sector companies or MNCs to have reservations. Nor can there be any reservation in sports, inventions, leadership, etc. Reservation can just give one a job (and a sarkaari one at that), but not a career. And warming up a chair for 50 years of your life, 9 to 5, is not my definition of progress. It is not a coincidence that most of the people in leadership positions in all spheres of life are from general category. It is not because they have superior genes. But it is because they have to work hard towards their goals, giving them a superior attitude, work-ethic and skills. Entering a career with a reservation is like entering a soccer match with a self-goal (maybe 2). You are perceived to be inferior. And you yourself have an inferiority complex. A job like that can give just give one a regular source of income. I am not denying the importance of that, but there any many ways of achieving a regular source of income (even beggars manage that).

What is required is skill building at the foundation level. If a child has access to good educational facilities, he/she usually finds his/her own way. I know students from humble backgrounds from towns like Hissar, Rohtak and Sonepat who come to Delhi to get coaching for medical/engineering exams. They do that as they have built a strong foundation through education. And I know people from the same background who are ready to pay lakhs just to get any job as porter/constable/driver, anything.

And why think of just education. There are other fields where Jats have natural talent like sports or even modeling. A town like Bhiwani is the national capital as far as boxing is concerned. Three boxers from a small town are world beaters. And there are many more training to be. It happened because someone opened a very rudimentary training facility in that town. Imagine the possibilities if good facilities are made available to such people right from the primary level. And imagine the tragedy if the same people start becoming peons and clerks after taking reservations.


2) Have not we progressed being in GENERAL?


I think we have progressed. And as I said earlier between General category and reserved category, the general category has done much better as they have had to work hard towards their goals. I am not sure if we could have boasted of a Virender Sehwag or Jitendra Kumar or so many others doing well in their own careers if we had reservations (Can anyone tell me any names from Meena community?).


3) Can we become an enterpreneur community rather than serving more and more[if not mostly but a lot of] in Police, DTC, HR Roadways etc? Here, if Refugee community can make millions with one Juice ki Rehdi? What do we lack socially when outer people have progressed in a great way?

Again it is not a coincidence that those facing greater challenges are the ones who end up progressing more. Because they don't rely on the status quo and are forced to do things out of the ordinary just for survival. You can look at the so-called refugee community here. You can look at the Jews who converted Israel from a strip of desert to a developed nation. You can look at the US and Australia. The big problem with reservations is that it gives the community a default option, and everyone starts seeking that. Our default option right now is land. Those in Delhi have become rich overnight by selling it. While those elsewhere try to live off it or dream of a Delhi-type outcome. The more impatient ones have started asking for reservations- which would be an even worse default option. We don't have enterpreneurs because of these default options. When leading members on these forums make comments like "Baniye ki naukri" for enterpreneurship and "Sarkaari naukri ki chaudhar" for reserved jobs, you don't have to look any further.



4) Are we insecure as ethnic race in current structure of modern society?

I don't think so. Asking for reservation is just a convenient option. Doesn't stem from any insecurity. Being a jat and being insecure doesn't gel for me :)



5) Have we ever had faced social reputation less than or like OBCs/ST in a village, city or state? Havnt this hundred year's great image given us enough courage to salavate us? Are we inferior?

I won't say we enjoy a stellar reputation. But it is still a unique reputation, with both positive and negative connotations. With every police constable and bus conductor being a Jat or a wannabe Jat, you can imagine that people would form some stereotypes. But there are more than enough Jats in other fields for others to keep a balanced perspective. When 3 out of 4 olympic medals were won by Jats, how can anyone consider us as inferior? When one thinks Jat, one has to think Virender Sehwag. A player with that kind of an attitude could only have been a Jat.



6) What if not RESERVATION?

More sports. More enterpreneurs. More army officers. More engineers. More MBAs. Even more models and actors!

 
Yaar example toh theek hi diye the tere samjh na aaye..
jyaada exmaple chahiye toh ek aur thread hai usmain jitender hooda ke comments pad lena..

bhai up aur bihar reservation ki vajah se peeche nahe e hain..
agar aisa hota toh tamilnadu sabse jyaada backward hota..jahan 70% reservation hai..
aur up bahut bada state hai..agar uska westernup area dekhoge toh woh sabs jyaadd eveloped hai at par with haryana..
but due to lack of jobs jat wahan par criminals bante jaa raha hain.. jo ki 15-20 saal pehle nahe etha.. e.g. sirohi gangster group aur na jaane kitne hi...
hayana hi dekh lo aaj ak aur 15-20 saal pehle ka data dekh lena.. kitne cases bad gaye hain..
aur yahan baat sirf govt jobs ki reservation ki nahee hai..
bhai aur jagah bhi resrevation ka faayda hota hai.. for eg. govt education instutues especially post graduate in medical,engg and mba..
wahan dekkho obc waalon ko kitna faayda mil raha hai..

aur mere toh bahut s efriends yadav hain.. jo obc ka faayda utha arhe hain.. aisa toh kabhi nahe ehua ki unke obc main hone se maine ya kisi aur en unke saath baithna chor diya ho...
gujjaron ko hi dekh lo..unke paas apise ki kya kamee hai.. jo unse reservation chahiye..
aur sabs ebada exmple meena community ka dekh lo.. aaj sabse jyaada meena community ke ias officers milenge..unka raaj hai rajasthan main..
gujjaron ne isse vajah se last eyar hungama kiya tah poore north india main..

gujarat isliye developed hai kyonki gujju community sabse jyaada numbers main NRI bane ehua hai especially in USA and UK .. aur woh gujarat main invest karte hain..

bihar ur UP ke bachward hone ke bahut se reasons hain..first is law and order..illetracy..




Yaar, example to achhe diya karro. Let's take your points one by one. Before looking at progress of yadavs in UP and Bihar, why not look at UP and Bihar first. They are right at the bottom amongst all Indian states in all respects. So a few more yadavs got govt. jobs, but as a whole the states are in deep sh*t. Agar aap society/community ke angle se dekh rahe hain to aap ko aise steps lene chaahiye jisse sab progress karre. Warna yeh to wahi baat ho gayi ki sabki aankhein fod di, aur fir ban gaye andhon main kaane raja. Bihar and UP used to be at the fore-front in all respects after independence. In the last 60 years, they have went to the bottom because of this mindless caste-based politics. Agar koi yadav mulayam singh ya laloo ko dekhkar bahut khush hota hai ki uski kaum ne bahut progress karr li hai, to woh bahut bada dhakkan hai. Political power is important but it needs to be supplemented by social and economic power. Now look at a state like Gujarat- Gujjus have progressed by leaps and bounds not by asking for reservations but by working hard and having an open mindset. Choice is yours- you want to make Haryana a Bihar where everyone is fighting everyone else on reservations/caste, etc. or a Gujarat where people line up with their money to invest.

Rahi baat criminals ki, to reservations se kya UP aur Bihar main criminals kam ho gaye hain kya? This is an illogical point. I won't say reservations reduce or increase criminalisation. But if you are making this point, then first look at your own example of UP/Bihar who top the charts in criminalisation.

Ab aate hain gathwala bhai ki baat par. Ki 60% main se 1% ko naukri mil jaayegi. Bahut badhiya, to 1% ko milegi khairaat main naukri aur woh zindagi bhar chappal ghisenge us naukri main. Khair unki marzi, agar aise unhain khushi milti hai, to theek hai. Par ab jo baaki 59% pade hain, unmain se 10% aise honge jinmain kaabliyat hogi kuchh karne ki, par jab woh private sector main apply karenge, to general waale unhain peechhe karr denge ki yeh to reservation waale hain, inke baski kuchh nahin hai.

And finally has anyone done any analysis on which jobs the Jats will get an advantage on post-reservations? As I said earlier, govt. jobs are few now and they will only decrease in future. Usmain aisi naukriyaan zaroor hain, jismain hum bahut tadaad main hain- like police, roadways, etc. Do we benefit or suffer from reserved status on these jobs? And even for other jobs, jats are already making it through general list. It is not as if there is no competition in reserved category itself. So if we move to OBC, the net impact would only be marginal (And would be there only for a few individuals, not for the whole community).
 
1. Tamilnadu ka case different hai. Wahaan reservation Dravidian movement ka ek chhota sa part tha. This started before independence. The number of "backward castes" in Tamilnadu are much higher. The Dravidian movement was led by Periyar and it was directed against Brahmins. The level of discrimination in Tamilnadu against these backward castes (and not only SC/STs) was unmatched. These guys couldn't go inside temples, couldn't drink from the same source, etc. etc. So Periyar (who was an accomplished businessman) led the Dravidian movement, which included self-respect marriages (not marrying Hindu style with a pandit but with a unique style), fought against imposition of Hindi, reservations for bacward classes and many other such steps (again emphasising that it was not only reservations). So reservations were a part of a much larger social movement. Are you arguing that ONLY the reservations led to development in Tamilnadu. I'd beg to differ. Firstly, the reverse discrimination against Brahmins had many negative effects as well. Tamilians were a force to reckon with (probably the most influential after Bengalis) before independence. But this marginalization of Tamil Brahmins weakened Tamilnadu's influence in India significantly post-independence. Many of the brilliant Tam-Brams just migrate overseas as they have no interest left in either Tamilnadu or India. Secondly, the middle or backward castes who reaped the benefits of reservations in Tamilnadu were not under-developed in the economically like SC/STs. The movement gave them social and political power (and not just reservations). Tamilnadu was a leading state at the time of independence and economically, these castes were already a part of it (though Brahmins enjoyed the most dominant status). It is not as if the development process was started or even sustained by reservations. Thirdly, most of the development in Tamilnadu is recent and a part of a general trend in the last 2 decades because of setting of IT/BPO industries in the south. If reservations led to development, why are the titans of the same industries opposing it? And between Chennai, Hyderabad and Bangalore, it is no secret which is the least preferred destination for setting up an industry. Fourthly, the 70% reservation in TN is on paper. Because of SC directive, in practise it amounts to 51% only (like anywhere else). I found it out recently only courtesy wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India#Reservation_policy_in_Tamil_Nadu

Finally, these castes in Tamilnadu atleast had a genuine grouse that they had been discriminated against by Brahmins. Who has discriminated against you? Can any Brahmin stop a Jat from entering any temple or drinking from any well?

2. Are you suggesting that reservations stop criminalization? If that's the case, then let's first reserve seats for jihadis. There are several reasons which leads to criminalization and unemployment is only one of them. There are several educated and employed people who also turn to crime. So first of all it is a bogus argument. In any case, let's assume that one of the significant reasons for criminalization is unemployment. But then reservation DOES NOT create any new jobs. So it does not solve the issue of unemployment and hence of crime. If someone gets a reserved job, someone else loses it. It is a zero sum game. The number of unemployed youth remain the same as earlier. Toh agar ek aadha jat kam banega criminal to koi aur ban jaayega. Khair, ab aap khaoge ki humain jaaton se matlab hai, chaahe baaki saari duniya bane criminal (It is an assumption and I don't agree with it as we are a part of India and we should always look at the complete picture). Fir bhi, reservation didn't solve unemployment. The number of unemployed jats would go down only marginally. Baaki kya ghar baith ke khush honge ki chalo kuchh hamaare dhabbi ban gaye sarkaari naukar, ab hum criminal na bante.

3. Tumhain ismain zyada interest hai ki gujjaron ko aarakshan kyun chaahiye ki ismain ki humein kyun chaahiye? Two wrongs don't make a right. We don't need to look at others' stupid excuses. If you think that we need reservations then tell me what do we lack? Is there some genetic problem with us that makes us inferior? Is there some inherent handicap in us that we can't compete fair and square?

4. Postgraduate institutes main reservation waalon ka kya hashr hota hai, yeh main pehle bata chuka hoon. I have seen this during both my engg. and MBA days, so if nothing else, I'd know atleast this much.

5. Amrika waale gujjuon main bhagwaan dekhte hain kya ki jo unhain utha ke le gaye the? Unmain kuchh khaas baat hogi na which makes them excel everywhere? Do they have a hidden immigrant quota in US? Why do you not want to see even the most obvious? These guys excel everywhere as they are hard working and confident. They back themselves instead of begging for favors like reservations (There are even better examples like Jews in Israel). If you think Meenas are worth exemplifying, then please join them. I don't see any success in filling government jobs because of reservations, even if it is IAS. That is khairaat. Name me a Meena IAS who is considered to be an excellent administrator. Wahaan to unki monopoly hai, koi to example hoga. Aur baaki fields ka kya- name a single one who has done anything of note in sports, science, journalism, academics, private sector or any field. It is not a coincidence. Why would someone strive for excellence, when there are easy default options available. Nehru had said this about reservations: “So these external props, as I may call them, the reservations of seats and the rest, may possibly be helpful occasionally, but they produce a false sense of political relation, a false sense of strength, and, ultimately therefore, they are not so nearly important as real educational, cultural and economic advance which gives them inner strength to face any difficulty or opponent.”

Yaar example toh theek hi diye the tere samjh na aaye..
jyaada exmaple chahiye toh ek aur thread hai usmain jitender hooda ke comments pad lena..

bhai up aur bihar reservation ki vajah se peeche nahe e hain..
agar aisa hota toh tamilnadu sabse jyaada backward hota..jahan 70% reservation hai..
aur up bahut bada state hai..agar uska westernup area dekhoge toh woh sabs jyaadd eveloped hai at par with haryana..
but due to lack of jobs jat wahan par criminals bante jaa raha hain.. jo ki 15-20 saal pehle nahe etha.. e.g. sirohi gangster group aur na jaane kitne hi...
hayana hi dekh lo aaj ak aur 15-20 saal pehle ka data dekh lena.. kitne cases bad gaye hain..
aur yahan baat sirf govt jobs ki reservation ki nahee hai..
bhai aur jagah bhi resrevation ka faayda hota hai.. for eg. govt education instutues especially post graduate in medical,engg and mba..
wahan dekkho obc waalon ko kitna faayda mil raha hai..

aur mere toh bahut s efriends yadav hain.. jo obc ka faayda utha arhe hain.. aisa toh kabhi nahe ehua ki unke obc main hone se maine ya kisi aur en unke saath baithna chor diya ho...
gujjaron ko hi dekh lo..unke paas apise ki kya kamee hai.. jo unse reservation chahiye..
aur sabs ebada exmple meena community ka dekh lo.. aaj sabse jyaada meena community ke ias officers milenge..unka raaj hai rajasthan main..
gujjaron ne isse vajah se last eyar hungama kiya tah poore north india main..

gujarat isliye developed hai kyonki gujju community sabse jyaada numbers main NRI bane ehua hai especially in USA and UK .. aur woh gujarat main invest karte hain..

bihar ur UP ke bachward hone ke bahut se reasons hain..first is law and order..illetracy..
 
jats reservation

i think reservation is necessary for haryana jays:---
1) for govt. jobs
2) now haryana jats are not big farmer like in past..now mostly we have 2-3 acre of land for farming which is not enough for our living as in past.
3) our young generation are less educated than others....many resons
4)we can utilite reservation platform to unit the whole jats under one roof and can do more benificery work for our community.
 
Agar reservation hogi toh bhi koi faayda nai honn aala ussmai bhi rishwat chaalaigi.Aur reservation milgi toh ke taup chala lyoge thaam log?jisnai karna ho kimme oh muh baaye reservation ki baat nai dekhta kaam karai hai.Reservation unn khattar hai jo kaamchor hai,rishwat de kai naukri le hai arr pher baad mai rishwat levai hai.Ghee toh andere mai bhi chimak jya hai.Ibb plz ya reservation ki tumbi bajani band kar dyo plz aur mehnat karni shuru karo.mehnat kari hoyi kadde bekar nai jaati.Oh i forgot tht u want to be a politician(which i think is d most corrupt profession)thts why u r favouring this reservation think:D


reservation main free te na milti ...usme bas thodi asanii ho ja s ....ar chodo reservation ki baat .....nue bataooo eb hum general s humne ke fayda ho raha s general hon ka ....................nue te bata do .....

ar dalal sahb agar eb humne reservation mil gayi te humne ke ke nuksan hoojange ye bhi bataeyooo...........
 
Agar reservation hogi toh bhi koi faayda nai honn aala ussmai bhi rishwat chaalaigi.Aur reservation milgi toh ke taup chala lyoge thaam log?jisnai karna ho kimme oh muh baaye reservation ki baat nai dekhta kaam karai hai.Reservation unn khattar hai jo kaamchor hai,rishwat de kai naukri le hai arr pher baad mai rishwat levai hai.Ghee toh andere mai bhi chimak jya hai.Ibb plz ya reservation ki tumbi bajani band kar dyo plz aur mehnat karni shuru karo.mehnat kari hoyi kadde bekar nai jaati.Oh i forgot tht u want to be a politician(which i think is d most corrupt profession)thts why u r favouring this reservation think:D



deepika ..mere khyal te chorii..tu padh likh li jabe ye baat kar ri s .....jab tane koi 12vi class main hi byah deta n kise chore k ar vo dhakee khata hande hooo t tu ya baat na kehtii tu nue kaho ki kyukar e ....isne lava do ............chalooo whatever ..its just a waste of time of yours and mine.. cause nothin output wll come here on this thread ..its just a mean to express your views ..without any ground reality .....and yeh 1 more thing ....

how come u got to know that i wana be a politician ...deepika ji i am running my business very well from your and god grace ..and i never ever want to be a politician ...and yeh when ever you got a chance to intract with any jat who believes in jat upliftment than u wll get to knw about the real thing .......

there are lot of people ....who are supporting this ..just cause of jat upliftment .....from top brass officials like IAS,IPS,HIGH COURT JUDGES ...COLS and many more in the list i hope they are not making fool of us they have a vision ...its not like i or you earned some penny so we dont need to work on such issues .......well nobody can change any 1 perceptions .. whether he/she realizes that ............
 
Bhai dekh main fir se batat hoon yahan par hum jaison ki baat nahee ho rahe ehai jo educated hain aur well settled hain..
baat un jaat bhaiyon ki ho rahee hai jo gaon main rehte hue vikas ke raaste par baaki community s epichdte ja arahe hain..

aur jaisa vivek bhai ne kaha jat reservation ke liye apne community ke bade s ebade log try kar arhe hain for e.g. devi sing tewatia (former chief justice) .. bhai in logon ka kois elf intereset nahe ehai ismain aur na yeh politics ki vajahs e kar rahe hain.. yeh bas community ka bhala chahte hain ..

rahe ebaat gujjon ki toh bhai.. 60's main bahut s egujju africa se america aur europe mains ettle ho gaye the mostly refugee bankar..
kyon ki wahan ke kaalon ne inhe bhaga diya tha.. aur wahan jais ataisa low grade kaam karke inhone gujara kiya.. par dhere dheere mehnat karke inhone business setup kar liye..

bhai jat businessman nahee ban sakte maan le baat jat ya toh hal chalayega ya service karega..

aur baaki perception change karna bahut mushkil hai isliye kyon google pe search maarkar time waste karte ho..

conclusion yeh hai ki hume community ka bhala karna hai..
tum apne dhang se karo hum apne dhang se karte hain..





1. Tamilnadu ka case different hai. Wahaan reservation Dravidian movement ka ek chhota sa part tha. This started before independence. The number of "backward castes" in Tamilnadu are much higher. The Dravidian movement was led by Periyar and it was directed against Brahmins. The level of discrimination in Tamilnadu against these backward castes (and not only SC/STs) was unmatched. These guys couldn't go inside temples, couldn't drink from the same source, etc. etc. So Periyar (who was an accomplished businessman) led the Dravidian movement, which included self-respect marriages (not marrying Hindu style with a pandit but with a unique style), fought against imposition of Hindi, reservations for bacward classes and many other such steps (again emphasising that it was not only reservations). So reservations were a part of a much larger social movement. Are you arguing that ONLY the reservations led to development in Tamilnadu. I'd beg to differ. Firstly, the reverse discrimination against Brahmins had many negative effects as well. Tamilians were a force to reckon with (probably the most influential after Bengalis) before independence. But this marginalization of Tamil Brahmins weakened Tamilnadu's influence in India significantly post-independence. Many of the brilliant Tam-Brams just migrate overseas as they have no interest left in either Tamilnadu or India. Secondly, the middle or backward castes who reaped the benefits of reservations in Tamilnadu were not under-developed in the economically like SC/STs. The movement gave them social and political power (and not just reservations). Tamilnadu was a leading state at the time of independence and economically, these castes were already a part of it (though Brahmins enjoyed the most dominant status). It is not as if the development process was started or even sustained by reservations. Thirdly, most of the development in Tamilnadu is recent and a part of a general trend in the last 2 decades because of setting of IT/BPO industries in the south. If reservations led to development, why are the titans of the same industries opposing it? And between Chennai, Hyderabad and Bangalore, it is no secret which is the least preferred destination for setting up an industry. Fourthly, the 70% reservation in TN is on paper. Because of SC directive, in practise it amounts to 51% only (like anywhere else). I found it out recently only courtesy wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India#Reservation_policy_in_Tamil_Nadu

Finally, these castes in Tamilnadu atleast had a genuine grouse that they had been discriminated against by Brahmins. Who has discriminated against you? Can any Brahmin stop a Jat from entering any temple or drinking from any well?

2. Are you suggesting that reservations stop criminalization? If that's the case, then let's first reserve seats for jihadis. There are several reasons which leads to criminalization and unemployment is only one of them. There are several educated and employed people who also turn to crime. So first of all it is a bogus argument. In any case, let's assume that one of the significant reasons for criminalization is unemployment. But then reservation DOES NOT create any new jobs. So it does not solve the issue of unemployment and hence of crime. If someone gets a reserved job, someone else loses it. It is a zero sum game. The number of unemployed youth remain the same as earlier. Toh agar ek aadha jat kam banega criminal to koi aur ban jaayega. Khair, ab aap khaoge ki humain jaaton se matlab hai, chaahe baaki saari duniya bane criminal (It is an assumption and I don't agree with it as we are a part of India and we should always look at the complete picture). Fir bhi, reservation didn't solve unemployment. The number of unemployed jats would go down only marginally. Baaki kya ghar baith ke khush honge ki chalo kuchh hamaare dhabbi ban gaye sarkaari naukar, ab hum criminal na bante.

3. Tumhain ismain zyada interest hai ki gujjaron ko aarakshan kyun chaahiye ki ismain ki humein kyun chaahiye? Two wrongs don't make a right. We don't need to look at others' stupid excuses. If you think that we need reservations then tell me what do we lack? Is there some genetic problem with us that makes us inferior? Is there some inherent handicap in us that we can't compete fair and square?

4. Postgraduate institutes main reservation waalon ka kya hashr hota hai, yeh main pehle bata chuka hoon. I have seen this during both my engg. and MBA days, so if nothing else, I'd know atleast this much.

5. Amrika waale gujjuon main bhagwaan dekhte hain kya ki jo unhain utha ke le gaye the? Unmain kuchh khaas baat hogi na which makes them excel everywhere? Do they have a hidden immigrant quota in US? Why do you not want to see even the most obvious? These guys excel everywhere as they are hard working and confident. They back themselves instead of begging for favors like reservations (There are even better examples like Jews in Israel). If you think Meenas are worth exemplifying, then please join them. I don't see any success in filling government jobs because of reservations, even if it is IAS. That is khairaat. Name me a Meena IAS who is considered to be an excellent administrator. Wahaan to unki monopoly hai, koi to example hoga. Aur baaki fields ka kya- name a single one who has done anything of note in sports, science, journalism, academics, private sector or any field. It is not a coincidence. Why would someone strive for excellence, when there are easy default options available. Nehru had said this about reservations: “So these external props, as I may call them, the reservations of seats and the rest, may possibly be helpful occasionally, but they produce a false sense of political relation, a false sense of strength, and, ultimately therefore, they are not so nearly important as real educational, cultural and economic advance which gives them inner strength to face any difficulty or opponent.”
 
Yeh kis type ki argument hai? Main kabhi bhi hum jaison ki baat nahin karr raha tha. Main sabki baat karr raha tha. Main nahin maanta ki gaon main rehne se koi pichhadta hai. Aadmi pichhadta hai jab woh pichhadne ki thaan leta hai (like believing in dogmas ki jat business nahin karr sakte- sirf hal chala sakte hain ya service karr sakte hain) I am basing my arguments on logic and facts. And I have given arguments against the points you have mentioned. You are telling me ki bade bade log support karr rahe hain to theek hi karr rahe honge. Agar koi bada hai to woh hamesha theek hi karega? And I am not doubting anyone's intentions. Par bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hota.

Bhai dekh main fir se batat hoon yahan par hum jaison ki baat nahee ho rahe ehai jo educated hain aur well settled hain..
baat un jaat bhaiyon ki ho rahee hai jo gaon main rehte hue vikas ke raaste par baaki community s epichdte ja arahe hain..

aur jaisa vivek bhai ne kaha jat reservation ke liye apne community ke bade s ebade log try kar arhe hain for e.g. devi sing tewatia (former chief justice) .. bhai in logon ka kois elf intereset nahe ehai ismain aur na yeh politics ki vajahs e kar rahe hain.. yeh bas community ka bhala chahte hain ..

rahe ebaat gujjon ki toh bhai.. 60's main bahut s egujju africa se america aur europe mains ettle ho gaye the mostly refugee bankar..
kyon ki wahan ke kaalon ne inhe bhaga diya tha.. aur wahan jais ataisa low grade kaam karke inhone gujara kiya.. par dhere dheere mehnat karke inhone business setup kar liye..

bhai jat businessman nahee ban sakte maan le baat jat ya toh hal chalayega ya service karega..

aur baaki perception change karna bahut mushkil hai isliye kyon google pe search maarkar time waste karte ho..

conclusion yeh hai ki hume community ka bhala karna hai..
tum apne dhang se karo hum apne dhang se karte hain..
 
Bhai dekh main fir se batat hoon yahan par hum jaison ki baat nahee ho rahe ehai jo educated hain aur well settled hain..
baat un jaat bhaiyon ki ho rahee hai jo gaon main rehte hue vikas ke raaste par baaki community s epichdte ja arahe hain..

aur jaisa vivek bhai ne kaha jat reservation ke liye apne community ke bade s ebade log try kar arhe hain for e.g. devi sing tewatia (former chief justice) .. bhai in logon ka kois elf intereset nahe ehai ismain aur na yeh politics ki vajahs e kar rahe hain.. yeh bas community ka bhala chahte hain ..

rahe ebaat gujjon ki toh bhai.. 60's main bahut s egujju africa se america aur europe mains ettle ho gaye the mostly refugee bankar..
kyon ki wahan ke kaalon ne inhe bhaga diya tha.. aur wahan jais ataisa low grade kaam karke inhone gujara kiya.. par dhere dheere mehnat karke inhone business setup kar liye..

bhai jat businessman nahee ban sakte maan le baat jat ya toh hal chalayega ya service karega..

aur baaki perception change karna bahut mushkil hai isliye kyon google pe search maarkar time waste karte ho..

conclusion yeh hai ki hume community ka bhala karna hai..
tum apne dhang se karo hum apne dhang se karte hain..

Kayi baar hum apne chashme utaarne se darte hain aur umar bhar chashmo ki aankho se duniya dekhte hain, hum darte hain apni aankho pe bharosa karne se - aur umar beet jaati hai :o

aapki baate sahi hain bilkul, par aapki daleelo me ek cheez hai jo ki shayad aapne bhi notice ki to hai par fir usko nazarandaaj kar diya hoga shayad ..... aur wo isliye kyonki kayi baar hum vaastavikta ke suvidhapurn dharatal par itne prem se khade hote hain ki swapno ko sach karne ki himmat kahi dam sa tod deti hai ........

aapne sab arguments ko maana hai ek aur parantu doosri aur aapne unko counter argument se dabaane ki koshish bhi ki hai ....... aur ant me aap kehte hain ki tum apne dhang se karo bhala aur aap apne dhang se karenge ..... aur sahi bhi hai koi dushman to nahi hai yaha apni community ka sab acha hi sochte hain .... :)

Par ek baat aap bataayenge ki agar reservation ke dam par taraaki ki raah chuni jaaye aur hum ye maan ke baith jaaye ki Jat ya to service hi kar sakta hai ya chaudhar hi to ye drishtikon aapko kitni unnati dila paayega?

Bas guzaara bhar kar lena santushti deta hai sabhi ko, kya itna kaafi hai bas?

kyo nahi kar sakta jat business/entrepreneurship? kya kami hai usme? aur hai to kya hum usko door karne ke liye kuch nahi kare?

Ek nazariya aur suniyega aap - gaanvo me bahut si rishtedaariyaan dekhti aayi hu mai aur aas pados ke logo ke kisse bhi, par dekha ye hai ki gaanvo ke Jat yuva ka bhavishya andhere me hai - wo kaamchor hote ja rahe hain, bete ghoomte firte hain aur ma baap kheto me pil rahe hain, bete ladkiyo ke peeche ghoom rahe hain aur ma baap dhor daangro me pile pade hain .... wo na khet me kaam karna chahte hain aur na hi padhna ...... wo masti karne aur be-roktok jeevan jeene me apna Jatpana samajhne lage hain ..... aur aise log gharwaalo ki minnato ke baad jab naukri paate hain to ye khate hain system ko, aaspaas ke logo ke dimaag ko, naukri ki kamaayi ghoomne aur sharaab me fookte hain - ye reservation hame upar le jaayega?

Maaniye ya nahi par yuva digbhramit ho rahe hain - naukri na hone ki wajah se nahi - akarmath hone ki wajah se !

Mehnat se dar aur maje karne ka shauk ! Aur is par se jab unhe reservation ka jhunjhuna milta hai to wo iska jee tod misuse karte hain :rolleyes:

Hame kya jarurat hai doosri community ya doosre pradesho ke baare me discuss karne ki, hamaari problems alag hain, hamaari soch alag hai, hamaari traits alag hai?

Hum me taakat hai par taakat ko direction nahi de paate ....

hamaare paas saadhan hai par lad jhagad ko unko ham chota kar dete hain 1 aur 1 gyarah karne ki bajaaye ....

Agar kisi 12vi me padhne waali ladki ka byah nikaame jat se kar diya jaaye to reservation us ladke ke nikaampepan ko tod dega ya fir wo us nikkampepan ko samaj me failaayega aur uspe TAG laga hoga Jat hone ka !

Aap accident me ghayal hain aur haalat naazuk hai, aur ek reserved category se aaya banda (jo competent nahi hai par fer bhi doctor ban gaya) aap par operate karke aapko zindagi bhar ka dard de jaaye, aisa reservation chahte ho aap kyonki aur log bhi le rahe hain isliye? ya fir isliye ki nikaampa firta ladka aur compounder hi ban paata isse acha hua ki reservation ke bal pe doctor ban baitha ?

Kab tak ham mehnat se muh modenge ye keh ke ki jat ye kar hi nahi sakta ya gaanvo ke pichde logo ko iski jarurat hai?

Kab samjhenge hum ki kayi logo ke pichdne ka kaaran unke pichde hue khayal aur sahi disha me mehnat na karne ki pravaati hoti hai aur is pravaati ka ilaaj jaroori hai na ki unko ye temporary baisaaakhi dena??
 
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