Racism, Safety and Wayout!

vipin80 said:
Dear Atish,

Could you name a few of those working at senior post. I know you wont because there are not. Leave alone senior position how many Indians are even finance manager( which is like a middle manager) despite the fact that lot of indians are CPAs or CAs..
Click to expand...

Bhai Vipin,

Forget about manager level,there are people from India who are really sitting on some top level jobs. My relative is a Director in one of the big company(MNC) in Aus and i won't write down his name on this very public form.But yes, if you really like to know about his details, i can send you those.There are three Indians who are at upper management level in the company where i am working.One is a supply chain manager,other is at General Manager level..One is a Finance and reporting manager..Few of my senior friends here are at very good positions in the companies...In Aus there are people from India who are running their own companies..One i know is in Mount Waverly who employs Australians..and every morning you can see so many Indians going to the city..Ask them about their positions..I hope you we will get some better and clear picture.

Attaining a degree can take someone to an entry level in a company, but the promotion and success can be determined by one's contribution to the business.

Your claim that Aus companies practice apartheid is unwarranted...If one feels that he/she is racially treated then he/she can lodge complaints of racial discrimination here :

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discrimination/index.html

In the company where i am working, on a regular basis we get email saying "If someone feels that he/she is not treated fairly, or someone feels any discrimination,can lodge a complaint to us and an appropriate action will be taken"

vipin80 said:
You and a few other are just defending australia. OK taxi drivers dont know english???? They dont know which no to call??? You must be joking ? I am sure a lot of taxi drivers speak as good as you do. I can pass you a few numbers of those drivers and you can find yourself.

A taxi driver cant explain the location is the joke of the day.

Only a few cant speak good english but they are the new drivers who recently arrived in Australia and they wont be driving taxis for long.
Click to expand...

Look i am not defending Australia here...All i am writing down here is what i have seen, and something based upon my experience.Last year, Australian Government passed a national rule to place an english test for taxi drivers to get a new license. This test was never in place before..This profession inundated with a number of people from subcontinent especially from India.Most of them are from Punjab with a very low proficieny in English resulted in querulous passengers.Most of these taxi drivers are questioned over propriety, hygine etc..And the list goes on and on..


Here is the one of the comment from an annoyed person:
Johnno Posted at 10:54 PM November 05, 2009
Please make cabbies learn English. I am sick of having to direct cabbies while they are yabbering away on their mobiles in another language. If I am lucky, they understand three words - straight, left and right. Their excuse for not knowing main roads or community landmarks - "I'm not from this area". My old mum grumbles about the ones who sit in the cab and watch her unload the shopping.


Please refer to following links for more information:

http://www.news.com.au/national/aspiring-cab-drivers-must-pass-english-test-under-new-national-standards/comments-e6frfkvr-1225794860303

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/aspiring-cabbies-must-pass-english-test-under-new-plan/comments-e6frg12c-1225794962674

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/aspiring-cab-drivers-must-pass-english-test-under-new-national-standards/comments-e6frf7jo-1225794831328




One can really understands the reality after reading the comments from people...I think without a hindsight one should not start commenting on anything.
 
Last edited:
Members are writing all sort of dirty things about Indian as well as jats. I do not think they deserve to be member of this forum.
Wake up Mods and take some action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
atish,manager is not senior level. I would say even director is not senior level. Senior level would likely start with VP. Becoming a manager is not much of an achievement either.
Some see racism, some say none at all. Truth seems to be in between. Don't complain when you go to a foreign country. You don't have to live there.
 
Atish,

I am not commenting without a hindsight. I had spent more time in australia than you and know australia much better than you. I have lived with aussies and kiwis in hostels for about 2 years. We have lived there at a time when you hardly see an Indian in the city during Peak hours. We have also seen the flood of students in 2003,04 and 05 since they started offering PR, and my first cousin is there since 15 years. I have worked for big companies in australia like Coca-Cola, Cadbury, Kraft but these are not aussie companies. Their board and senior management is dominated by mostly english people or US people who prefer to hire english backpakers or other work permit holders not Aussies. Reason Aussies aren't well educated and dont work hard.

I was talking about aussie companies whose board and major shareholders are australian.

Most of my friends are living in Aus since 1997. Most of the well educated and experienced people share the same thought there that you cant grow up in aussie companies.

My brother was denied job/promotion twice because he was an Indian. You probably even haven't heard anyone saying "this candidate won't fit culturally among us".

There might be a few example where Indians are at a slightly higher(not senior) positions. But most of my friends are in finance and working in australia for 10 + years and even they havent seen many Indian controlling Finance area. Its only IT area where you will see Indians and that too upto a level of project manager. Reason IT was new for Aussies they didnt know what to do in 2000. So they hired indian students from universities even though they didnt have work visas.

Attacks on Indian is also not a new thing. It always happened but you know what Police and Govt never cared. Its only because of Indian media that now they have to react. Even you chief police officer accepted it that its not new and happening for a long time. It started with wogs but now wogs are stronger than there were attacks on Labnease and now Indian.

Aussies will always complain but you know what indians students always use to drive taxis once immigration started cracking down on students and that friday night people have to wait hours for taxis.
You know why we have security cameras in taxis in australia??

That time lot of indians have moved back to India many moved to UK, US. But these things never came in open. Speak to any call center worker in Australia and you will find out how much they abuse india and indians. Aussies are coward people they wont say on your face and they will always attack you when they are in groups. If you are in group than they wont touch you.

And you know what victorian police say they dont keep a track of victim's identity but than read these lines from an australian newpaper "But last month Chief Commissioner Simon Overland added to confusion by admitting ''about 50 per cent'' of assaults on Indians involved taxi drivers and convenience store workers, suggesting records are kept". They are multifaced people. You have to live in them to know them.

Hence, many moved back but many stayed there as well. Reaon they had big loans to pay off. That time there was no such thing as "open PR" so people had no option but to study and study till they find a sponser. If they move back they would be considered a failure in India and people will laugh at them (which is ridiculous) .

Once when my brother my denied job (many years back) i asked my aussie friend alisa that " Are australian racist". She said "Yes".


I know someone will ask " Doesn't this happen in India? " Aren't Indian denied entry to pubs in Goa?" Yes, it does but OP has asked experiences in Foreign lands.



Samar you always start social issue's thread. I am sure you must have alot to share. Could you share some?
 
Last edited:
vipin80 said:
Atish,
I am not commenting without a hindsight.
Click to expand...
Your post makes a lot of sense and contains truth. I don't challenge the facts that you have put forward. I feel that "We say(talk) about what we see". Even I have been a victim of racism (verbal) many times. Rang up one computer shop to enquire about price and availability of a laptop. Without any reason the second line he said "What is wrong with you guys from the subcontinent? Go back where you came from". gaalam gaal ho ge us din kasuute. And yes, noticed some goras staring snobbishly. OK that was the bad part.
I was invited over to Tasmania by a friend. I visited his close friends in the neighbourhood. A man 60+ y.o. served me home brewed beer and dinner of meshed potato, chicken (he knew Indians dont eat beef so he made chicken), corn, wine ar bhai gajab ki mehmaan navaaji thi.
Have a lot of similar incidents few experienced by myself and few heard.
Racism is present, swarg te hai na yo.
These people don't even spare Britishers, pommie pommie kar ke unki bhi naak me damm kar de hain.
To sum it up -- "Roses and thorns grown on the same tree".
 
.

A good thought provoking write up in today's Danik Bhaskar -

>> मेलबोर्न और मुंबई के बीच फर्क क्यों?

.. मुंबई और महाराष्ट्र अगर केवल मराठियों के लिए है तो फिर मेलबोर्न और सिडनी में भारतीय छात्रों के साथ होने वाली नस्लीय हिंसा को लेकर इतना बवाल क्यों मचाया जा रहा है? हम अपने ही देश में पनप रहे क्षेत्रीय नस्लवाद के विरोध में केवल खीसों में मुट्ठियां भींच रहे हैं पर ऑस्ट्रेलिया को बहादुरी के साथ धमकियां रवाना कर रहे हैं कि अगर भारतीयों के खिलाफ हिंसा नहीं रुकी तो दोनों देशों के बीच संबंध खराब हो सकते हैं।ऑस्ट्रेलिया को लगातार चेतावनी देने वाले देश के वर्तमान विदेशमंत्री केवल कुछ महीनों पहले तक ही महाराष्ट्र के राज्यपाल थे। ..

http://www.bhaskar.com/2010/02/04/100204012512_why_the_difference_between_melbourne_and_mumbai.html

First we need to look into our own sleeves then we've right to talk about racism in foreign countries. Well, its their country, you're the immigrant .. they didn't invite you there, if u find that country hostile and racist, why whining .. come back to India. One more thing, if media keep fueling this hype, consequences will be bad .. n' as a result in coming days it'll be hard for Indians to live in peace there in Oz. Think 'bout it!

 
vipin80 said:
Atish,

I am not commenting without a hindsight. I had spent more time in australia than you and know australia much better than you.
Click to expand...

Dear Vipin,

You would have spent 25 years in Australia but how can you claim that you know better than me.Was there any test we have been through and you have scored more.If you have been mortified by some bogan scrag and you feel that place is not good for you then go back..What is the point in whining..As simple as that..Living in country you do not like, earning $$ and then criticizing it..how droll is that??I found your last post vindictive and i think it's better we stop discussing it.
 
cooljat said:
.

One more thing, if media keep fueling this hype, consequences will be bad .. n' as a result in coming days it'll be hard for Indians to live in peace there in Oz. Think 'bout it!
Click to expand...

Good article indeed.
This hype will not only make the life difficult for Indians in Oz but it will also lead to some strict visa norms for Oz in near future!

These "Thakr**eys", "Raos" and "Karunanid**his" will make life hell within the country. If no strict action is taken against them sooner, its we only who will be repenting later. Ye to neta hai.. inka kuch na bigadta.. logo ko bhadka kar aram se AC me baith kar maje lete hai. First these politicians should be held responsible for chaos within the country and make them repent for what they are doing.
Talking about Racism in OZ or other foreign countries, it is always there, whether in small or huge proportion. We need to take care of ourselves when we are outside. Police or government can't be there always with you as a bodyguard. Points for safety sugggested by some members are worth to be taken for implementation.
As such no Wayout can be reached until and unless People change their attitude!
 
I agree for the first time with you, Aman !! You dont have to live where you arent happy but the problem is a lot of people get stuck. Fees for some courses are $ 40000 and when you have invested that much you want it back and to save this it take many years and than you are stuck in a loop. Once you have this much money you realise you are too old to go back and start a new living as most probably by that time you would have a family to look after.
 
Last edited:
vipin80 said:
I am already back long time ago and trust me that was the best decision of my life. I started smiling again.
.
Click to expand...
Good onya:)
hope many other Indians follow suit....and smile..live where u actually feel like..
not talkin or know bout u but some of 'em embarass other Indians no end! and then the media..
http://www.theage.com.au/national/indian-envoy-attacks-victoria-over-violence-20100203-ndl0.html
and some appeasing sycophant minions like Simon Overland dont help either...
 
Last edited:
vipin80 said:
I agree for the first time with you, Aman !! You dont have to live where you arent happy but the problem is a lot of people get stuck. Fees for some courses are $ 40000 and when you have invested that much you want it back and to save this it take many years and than you are stuck in a loop. Once you have this much money you realise you are too old to go back and start a new living as most probably by that time you would have a family to look after.
Click to expand...
hope these "racist" attacks work as an eye-opener for those planin to migrate then
 
VPannu said:
Racism is present, swarg te hai na yo.
These people don't even spare Britishers, pommie pommie kar ke unki bhi naak me damm kar de hain.
.
Click to expand...
hahaha..quite right
Pommies are their pet peeve
there was even an open appplication on Facebook this Australia day..
something like 'whinging Pom feather' or sumthin like that..forgotten
 
Samarkadian said:
Now based on various posters contribution and other sources, here are some safety measures, guidelines to encounter the racial distasteful situations arising at any country.

1.Travelling: - This a is serious caveat ; do not travel in trains after 9pm. Even if you do, choose to stay in a group. While coming back from through public transport such a Train, Always choose to stand, sit in driver’s/Guard’s cabin.......

2.Communication: Avoid being loud in native language at public places. This spur the anger in locals and taken as rude. Put your gadgets off while travelling in public place.......

3.Accommodation: Use a bit of commonsense while you start living in any area.Usualy cheapest suburbs is not safest ones. In Melbourne, avoid suburbs like Hoppers Crossing, Werribee, Frankston, Broad Meadows and Springvale .Choose average or above average localities to settle. Also avoid renting in the area which have mostly pubs and bars.

4.Acting in trouble: Don’t panic. If danger is imminent run and pull the door handles of all the cars nearby. Mostly the cars in Australia have security alarm. The pulling of the car handles triggers the alarm and its alerts the neighbourhood thus dissuading the attacker. Also keep Emergency number 000 in Speed dialling mode in your cell phone. This helps. Be careful when and how you retaliate. It is alright if you are protecting yourself and inflict somebody a blow in self defence. But make sure, you don't make the first move (ahahaha... just like the dog in the picture... rolling on the floor... LMAO !!!)

5.Indian Associations: Keep in touch Indian associations like Jat Association [if there is], Punjabi Association, Bengali, Gujarati or any Indian group.Check out with local Jat chapters in particular country.

6.Avoid argument: Remember it’s not our country, so better to brush off any racial comment, argument.
Click to expand...
samar, very good suggestions indeed. also, i must confess that this thread has been a very good read esp. getting the 1st hand information from fellow oz JATlanders. i couldn't manage myself to hold back after reading yr aforesaid safety precautions nd those given by jit nd fateh sir. pls don't take it otherwise, but the attached picture immediately popped-up in my mind. i titled the picture as "Aussie NRI's Life" (JAT's excluded).

couldn't stop myself going out of wits after comparing that picture with your safety measures.

not to derail the subject let me bring forth my 2 cents aired earlier on JATland. here they are
v
v
v
brahmtewatia said:
deshwal sir,
namaskar !

it's a naked fact tht racism exists in most parts of the world nd the gori chamdi always have an edge over blacks nd browns. lets put it in samar's word "countries are not racist, but the people are". catch yr ears any way you can by putting it in any words, the fact however, REMAINS. the law may be same for all communities of ppl living in a particular country, but i strongly doubt the fairness in its execution by the law enforcers. even here, in south africa, racism exists in all its possible forms... but in a 'hush hush' (obscured) way nd the outcome, more often then not is mostly determined by the law enforcers, which in majority are still whites.

i also agree tht media has blown the issue out of proportion... thts really pathetic nd i also concur with the viewpoint of many here tht you have to be bold in what you stand for !!! whether it is india, or abroad. having said all this, i've one thing to ask...

# as to why we are everyday hearing such cases every now nd then...one more reported today ?

# is it b.cos the media has highlighted the issue so much tht even a small, trivial incidence is also being reported ?

# or has it something to do with the real picture tht exists/existed but was never reported hitherto... for what-so-ever reasons ?

i've heard frm many tht australians are arrogant nd racist. one of my friend even surrendered his PR well before all these incidences came into highlight.

thanks ! wud appreciate yr further views on the matter.
Click to expand...
 
Pardon me, I am keen to know following
a) who are these people who are troubling Indians
b} what kind of incidents have taken place
c) who are contolling the Govt ( Australian orpeople migrated from UK earlier
d) what is the % of people who are involved in troubling Indians
e) are they trouble only Indians or other nationals also
f) what kind of motive had been behind these incidents
g) what age group people are invoved in attacking Indians
h) what kind of Indians are troubled
i) what type of places & what time generally such incidents take place

PEOPLE STAYING/STAYED IN aUSTRALIA ARE REQUESTED TO PUT SOME LIGHT ON ABOVE POINTS FOR MY INFORMATION PLEASE. REGARDS
 
Fateh said:
Pardon me, I am keen to know following
a) who are these people who are troubling Indians
minorities-sudanese,lebanese and chinks
b} what kind of incidents have taken place
random verbal desperate abuses/attacks
c) who are contolling the Govt ( Australian orpeople migrated from UK earlier
cosmopolitan, but many Aussis..cmon ..they built this nation from a wasteland foresty land prone to bushfires/hurricanes/floods
d) what is the % of people who are involved in troubling Indians
not sure, but a litlle %, and even lesser % from the mainstream
e) are they trouble only Indians or other nationals also
yup.yup..they sure do..next in line are Anglos
f) what kind of motive had been behind these incidents
opportunistic/ teen alcoholic, drug infested desperados
g) what age group people are invoved in attacking Indians
young Indians goin bout there works at wrong place at wrong time, and other communities included
h) what kind of Indians are troubled
Typical Indian-ish Indians (maybe mentioned the typicals in some post earlier)
i) what type of places & what time generally such incidents take place
western suburbs/ghettos of Mel.

PEOPLE STAYING/STAYED IN aUSTRALIA ARE REQUESTED TO PUT SOME LIGHT ON ABOVE POINTS FOR MY INFORMATION PLEASE. REGARDS
Click to expand...
thats wots commonly observed
Asians (chinese sort of )not too good, displayed in all Aus Newspapers
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ack-in-melbourne/story-e6frg6nf-1225823575809
but that was just not reported enough..where were the fireworks ?haha
Four Asians were released, four charged


haha Fateh Kharb Ji, u made me wake up from my sleep
 
Last edited:
atish, if you take the opinion of any neutral 3rd person (like me) then i would say that vipin’s narration nd experience weighs far more than yr explanations. cos at anytime experience counts far more than knowledge. though i admire your views and logic, however, something in me still says that your views are more like an obsession with your new-found love (here oz). in more understanding terms, you can say that ‘नया नया मुल्ला, अल्लाह अल्लाह पुकारे”

 i do appreciate yr जज़्बात nd yr passion for oz… nd why not ! after all its your new home, so all yr allegiance and loyalty is appreciable nd it should be. in fact if i try to put myself in yr shoes i’m also ready to shoot anyone point-blank if they utter a single word about/at canada. but mere bhai, lets not run away from the reality. any neutral person can make an easy assessment from the views given by you, deshwal sir, vipin, deepshi, pannu nd others as to what exactly is the ground reality. lets not deny what is apparent nd face it. trust me, until now i was conniving from the reality and considered it to be more of a media hype than the reality. but, i change my opinion now… its is apparent, nd very much clearly apparent. racism exists nd it exists everywhere, be it in any form <<< nd thts the bottomline.

[FONT=&quot]appreciate pannu’s post where he admits racism but goes on to say… “[/FONT]Racism is present, swarg te hai na yo[FONT=&quot]”.[/FONT]
my neutral opinion ! call it 2 cents or 100 cents… nd no offense to yr opinion + assessment. Indeed, it was worth a read.

 p.s. : loosing patience is like loosing ground. yr below post says so.

atishmohan said:
Dear Vipin,

You would have spent 25 years in Australia but how can you claim that you know better than me.Was there any test we have been through and you have scored more.If you have been mortified by some bogan scrag and you feel that place is not good for you then go back..What is the point in whining..As simple as that..Living in country you do not like, earning $$ and then criticizing it..how droll is that??I found your last post vindictive and i think it's better we stop discussing it.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top