Racism, Safety and Wayout!

atishmohan said:
Your claim that Aus companies practice apartheid is unwarranted...If one feels that he/she is racially treated then he/she can lodge complaints of racial discrimination here :
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atish, if you allow, let me correct you here on the usage of word "apartheid".
apartheid (afrikaans meaning = separateness) was a system of legal racial segregation enforced by the national party govt. in south africa btwn 1948 nd 1994, under which the rights of the majority black inhabitants of south africa were curtailed nd minority white rule was maintained.

this racial segregation in SA began in colonial times, but apartheid as an official policy was introduced following the general elections of 1948, whereby inhabitants were classified into racial groups (black, white, colored nd indians).

please dont use this word to be synonymous with any other sort of racism.
 
vipin80 said:
Thanks for unbiased comments Mr Tewatia, If I am not wrong have you moved to Canada now? ( earlier I think you were in south africa)
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vipin, my situation is honestly like "जाट की गाय न गाँव की ना गुहांड की" (<<< my version of old adage). bro, i'm still in transition. going slow nd steady but firm... wanna see recession recede as far as possible. secondly, i'm getting a cheque thts anytime better than that of any 1st world country, so why bother much.
 
brahmtewatia said:
atish, if you take the opinion of any neutral 3rd person (like me) then i would say that vipin’s narration nd experience weighs far more than yr explanations. cos at anytime experience counts far more than knowledge. though i admire your views and logic, however, something in me still says that your views are more like an obsession with your new-found love (here oz). in more understanding terms, you can say that ‘नया नया मुल्ला, अल्लाह अल्लाह पुकारे”

i do appreciate yr जज़्बात nd yr passion for oz… nd why not ! after all its your new home, so all yr allegiance and loyalty is appreciable nd it should be. in fact if i try to put myself in yr shoes i’m also ready to shoot anyone point-blank if they utter a single word about/at canada. but mere bhai, lets not run away from the reality. any neutral person can make an easy assessment from the views given by you, deshwal sir, vipin, deepshi, pannu nd others as to what exactly is the ground reality. lets not deny what is apparent nd face it. trust me, until now i was conniving from the reality and considered it to be more of a media hype than the reality. but, i change my opinion now… its is apparent, nd very much clearly apparent. racism exists nd it exists everywhere, be it in any form <<< nd thts the bottomline.

[FONT=&quot]appreciate pannu’s post where he admits racism but goes on to say… “[/FONT]Racism is present, swarg te hai na yo[FONT=&quot]”.[/FONT]

my neutral opinion ! call it 2 cents or 100 cents… nd no offense to yr opinion + assessment. Indeed, it was worth a read.

p.s. : loosing patience is like loosing ground. yr below post says so.
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Brahm ji,
First of all thanks for your judgement.Very much appreciated. Yeah i might have lost my patience..Reason being, i see so many people who live in a country which they don't like..they earn $$ and then they start complaining like a kid...I would like to class them as clown.."Bhai Desh Badiya Nahi Lagta to Ghar Chale Jao...Kaun Keh raha hai ki yahan rukna hai..Aakhir aapka hi to decison tha yahan aane ka..abb kyu Ro rahe ho".

Brahm ji, the reason why i lost my patience to one of the post of a GYANI was his way of writing.Let me explain you with an example.

In reference to the picture you have posted on this thread about "Aus NRI Life" . I might argue like this "Brahm ji, i know better than you because i live in Australia and you don't..The picture you have posted does not depicts the NRI life the way you are projecting it... for bla bla reasons" Or i might start writing like this "Brahm ji, I appreciate your knowledge and understand where you are coming from..But i differ from you for bla bla reasons"...


"Bhai apna GYAN baaton, koye koni rokta...Baaki nyu na kehya karo ke Munnai GHANA bera hai tertai"
 
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brahmtewatia said:
atish, if you allow, let me correct you here on the usage of word "apartheid".

apartheid (afrikaans meaning = separateness) was a system of legal racial segregation enforced by the national party govt. in south africa btwn 1948 nd 1994, under which the rights of the majority black inhabitants of south africa were curtailed nd minority white rule was maintained.

this racial segregation in SA began in colonial times, but apartheid as an official policy was introduced following the general elections of 1948, whereby inhabitants were classified into racial groups (black, white, colored nd indians).

please dont use this word to be synonymous with any other sort of racism.
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Respected Sir,

As per my understanding, synonyms of apartheid are : Separatism, racism, discrimination, seperation

Source:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apartheid

Source: http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/apartheid

Meaning: (in the Republic of South Africa) a rigid policy of segregation of the nonwhite population; any system or practice that separates people according to race, caste, etc.

Thanks for pointing it out.
 
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"Discrimination against the white tourist: Something particularly irritating for a 'white man' is that wherever he goes in India, he has to pay a special rate. Whether he visits the Taj Mahal where the 'white' tourist has to cough up Rs 750 to see the mausoleum, or a national museum, or even hotels or airlines, there is a true racial discrimination." Source : http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/jun/22claude.htm
 
atishmohan said:
Brahm ji,
Brahm ji, the reason why i lost my patience to one of the post of a GYANI was his way of writing.Let me explain you with an example.
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You said I shouldnt comment without hindsight. I have spend many years there have worked in various organisation. You have recently moved there about 4 years out of that you would have spend 2 or 3 years in study. So you have about 1 or 2 years of field experience ( again, I could be wrong). Also you said lot of people who live there (NRI) complain about australia. Could you please tell us what they complain about. I would like to hear.

Regading if they stay there they shouldn't complain. OK than who should complain those who doesnt live there?? Why would they complain??? Obviously the sufferers will complain. I never complained once I moved back because it doesnt bother me anymore. Why wouldnt they move back. Lot of reasons, Finacial, mortgage, personal. Welcome to the real world.

BTW Britishers always complaied about Indian dirt, poverty , ignorace but still stayed there for 400 years. Yes sometime you have to live where you dont want to live for different reasons. And thats life!!
 
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atishmohan said:
Brahm ji,
First of all thanks for your judgement.Very much appreciated. Yeah i might have lost my patience..Reason being, i see so many people who live in a country which they don't like..they earn $$ and then they start complaining like a kid...I would like to class them as clown.."Bhai Desh Badiya Nahi Lagta to Ghar Chale Jao...Kaun Keh raha hai ki yahan rukna hai..Aakhir aapka hi to decison tha yahan aane ka..abb kyu Ro rahe ho".

Brahm ji, the reason why i lost my patience to one of the post of a GYANI was his way of writing.Let me explain you with an example.

In reference to the picture you have posted on this thread about "Aus NRI Life" . I might argue like this "Brahm ji, i know better than you because i live in Australia and you don't..The picture you have posted does not depicts the NRI life the way you are projecting it... for bla bla reasons" Or i might start writing like this "Brahm ji, I appreciate your knowledge and understand where you are coming from..But i differ from you for bla bla reasons"...


"Bhai apna GYAN baaton, koye koni rokta...Baaki nyu na kehya karo ke Munnai GHANA bera hai tertai"
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atish, my comparison with the picture was just to add a bit of humor to the ensuing (getting hot) discussion... i didn't meant it literary, as clarified by my disclaimer in the next post. but yaa, the picture propped in my mind nd i thought of sharing that... rolling on the floor has stopped but still lmao. (on samar jaychand's (... ahaha) advise i've stopped using smiley's, par yaar samjha karo)

in one of my social profile, "about me" i've mentioned... "'different ppl think in different ways, don't you take them for wrong"... and a lot depends on their upbringing nd education, behavioral patterns, psyche + their mental/social status + so many other reasons... last, but not the least >>> their over-all exposure to the world. that is why no two people are same. on this aspect, i learnt a lot from JATland... another thing >>> jab tak discussion HOT na ho jaye tab tak (एटलीस्ट मुझे) maza nahin aata, i mean थोड़ी बहुत घुसंडबाजी तो होनी चाहिए ना ? else it becomes dull nd boring.

bro, take it easy. i do understand, what is the ground reality, nd i say so with my 1-1/2 decade of overseas exposure in various countries. having said that, by no means it undermines your's or vipin's experience or exposure, but yes the opinions may differ. off course, i do agree (nd of which i am sure vipin too will agree) with me, that you definitely owe an allegiance to a country where you earn yr bread nd butter.

p.s. : ... nd here goes brahm(it) prakash(it) tewatia, preaching all the way... apologies to those who disagree or don't understand.
 
brahmtewatia said:
atish, if you allow, let me correct you here on the usage of word "apartheid".
apartheid (afrikaans meaning = separateness) was a system of legal racial segregation enforced by the national party govt. in south africa btwn 1948 nd 1994, under which the rights of the majority black inhabitants of south africa were curtailed nd minority white rule was maintained.

this racial segregation in SA began in colonial times, but apartheid as an official policy was introduced following the general elections of 1948, whereby inhabitants were classified into racial groups (black, white, colored nd indians).

please dont use this word to be synonymous with any other sort of racism.
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ok atish, one mistake on my statement... i take the word "synonymous" back. well any sort of 'racism' may or may not be synonymous with the word 'apartheid'. but remember, all those links that you gave nd all the dictionaries that evolved... were only after, when this word "apartheid" was 1st used in SA in 1948.

the type of racism that is apparent (or not apparent) or what that has been talked off in oz, for sure cannot be classified as something called 'apartheid'. here it is white nd others. there is no classification or segregation on the basis of class, group, race or ethnicity. it's a different matter all together tht yesterday it was lebanese or sudanese (or whosoever) today its indians, tomorrow anglos (as pointed by deepshi), the day after chinkies... nd so on. they all fall in the category of >>> others.

the usage of this word in your sentence was not proper, at least i felt so. i may be wrong. if some one has even better knowledge... please intervene.

atishmohan said:
Respected Sir,

As per my understanding, synonyms of apartheid are : Separatism, racism, discrimination, seperation

Source:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apartheid

Source: http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/apartheid

Meaning: (in the Republic of South Africa) a rigid policy of segregation of the nonwhite population; any system or practice that separates people according to race, caste, etc.

Thanks for pointing it out.
Click to expand...
 
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first and foremost is dressing sense.i have seen indian ladies coming to gym in their nightsuit pajamas.its not india where punjaban aunty ji can come outside her house wearing a maxi.do in the rome as romans do.indians esplly south indians should definitely take come courses of dressing sense and hygiene before coming foreign.ppl in india dress up much better these days than here.
i remember a known of us saying after a visit to india.......ki yaar waha to kapdde bhi itne dhulwaane paddte hai.underwear bhi roz change karne paddte hai.ab soch lo vo uncle ji yaha kaise rahtte hogge.
number 2nd is language.speak the common language.
 
Vipin may be right in saying that there are hardly any Indians in top position in Australian owned companies.
The main reason for this is that unlike USA and USA majority of Indian in Australia are first generation immigrants.
Moreover, first generation immigrants in other developed countries, having senior level positions are from from the background of prestigious institutions like IIT and IIM and many of them get picked from the campus itself.
I am sure in decade or so, the situation in Australia also would change when the second generation Indians, who are now in schools and universities join the work force. There are so many young Indians who are holding middle management positions in Australian owned companies and were picked up straight from their universities.I have known many young jats who have made a good beginning.

The fact remains that some short of discrimination remains in every society and Australia is no exception. Off course the reaction of the Brumby guy ( Victorian PM) was in bad taste. Now he is sending Shane Warne on a Good Will mission to India!

Deepshi, St. Kilda is notorious for junkies and druggies. Obviously, the paper hasn't given the other side of the story. I have worked in St. Kilda for more than a year. It is very common there that those idiots run away without paying the fare and become abusive and aggressive. That could be the reason, the guy got bashed up. Also, you find many young Indian cabbies all the time around Luna park and he must have got moral support from others.



cheers!
 
दीपशिखा जी, मुझे पूरा विश्वाश है की इस छोरे ने मोगरे का इस्तेमाल अपने हक के लिए किया है
इसलिए में पहले लिखी लाइनों को फिर दोहराता हूँ :
जो ना जाने हक की ताक़त
रब ना देवे उसको हिम्मत
हम मन के दरिया में डूबें
कैसी नय्या, क्या मंज्धार !
बस करी हो यार ........एक सूफी कवी

मन ही मन लड़ाई नहीं लड़ी जा सकती, हाथ पैर तो चलाने ही पड़ेंगे ना !


cheers!
 
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vipin80 said:
I know this Gyani is refered to me so let me answer: You said I shouldnt comment without hindsight. I have spend many years there have worked in various organisation. You have recently moved there about 4 years out of that you would have spend 2 or 3 years in study. So you have about 1 or 2 years of field experience ( again, I could be wrong). Also you said lot of people who live there (NRI) complain about australia.!
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Bhai Vipin first of all, just to clear you, i am not under any impression that i have more experience than you or my 2 or 3 years of work experience reveals everything.All i am writing here is what i have heard from my friends,relatives and what i see.One of my friend work with IRESS Marketing Technology..In that company there is a south indian who is at good position and would be earning around 200 Grand a year..I don't know how many Australians report to him...Passed out from RMIT..Has got promotion based upon his abilities to make the profits to the business, his performance, his contribution to the company..and i think that is what business need..Profits not the nationality or race.One other i know, came here in 1994, studied at RMIT and is at Senior Level in a MNC..So many Australians recommend him..Has worked with many Australian Companies..And i had chat with him..He did'nt complain about any racial discrimination.According to your logic,Australian Companies should not outsource their work.reason is very simple and apparent..Yes you may be right that there are hardly Indians in top position in Australian companies but one should look at the facts that how many Indians come to Australia. When Australia has experienced an upsurge in number of Indians coming for studies..I concur with Deshwal sir that they are first generation migrants..And there are many Indians who are working at middle management level..and we will witness them sitting at some top level in future..And i would also argue that how many Australian MNC you have seen compare to the USA...What is the total size of Australian business compare to USA..Then estimate how many professionals a market like Australia would require compare to USA.Australian population is 22 million while US population is 300 million..Same is with market.The number of Australian companies are very less as compare to USA or Europe..Then how can you find many Indians working in those companies.The probability would decrease.

vipin80 said:
Could you please tell us what they complain about. I would like to hear.

Regading if they stay there they shouldn't complain. OK than who should complain those who doesnt live there?? Why would they complain??? Obviously the sufferers will complain. I never complained once I moved back because it doesnt bother me anymore. Why wouldnt they move back. Lot of reasons, Finacial, mortgage, personal. Welcome to the real world.

BTW Britishers always complaied about Indian dirt, poverty , ignorace but still stayed there for 400 years. Yes sometime you have to live where you dont want to live for different reasons. And thats life!!
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All i meant was if you don't feel place is good for you then go back mate.....that's what i think..Some say.."Yaar Gore se jayada vasta matt rakhoo..inse door hi raho to accha hai.."..And if someone felt that he has not been treated fairly And also feels that it cannot be sorted out ..then go back.. .as simple as that..If you have got problems like paying loans or any debt, then pay it off..It's your responsibility..Australian Government is not responsible for that..Some people here put links of White Australian Policy...Why you have not checked all of that information before going to that country...What is the point in showing it now.

Britishers came with an intention of business not for living or to settle down..I hope you see some difference..
 
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Atish,

The topic is about racism. I have learnt a lot from australia. I was able to go on world tour twice because of Australia. It helped me a lot in personal and professional life. Despite these facts racism is a reality. I dont say what I hear. I only say what I felt and I have already made it clear many time that these are just my perceptions. As Bhram said different people has different views and thats the beauty of these forums.

But somehow I feel your posts are some time contradictory and I also feel that sometime you dont read things carefully. Regarding the britishers I have already said that " reason are different" still you asking me the same thing again. BTW lot of people move overseas for business. To move for the hope of good life style and quick bucks is also a business.

I am sorry if i have hurt your feelings.

So people over there complain to you "Yaar Gore se jayada vasta matt rakhoo..inse door hi raho to accha hai.." ha ha this is not a complain I guess? This is their advise but I would say do mix with them where ever u can that will help you understand their view point.

I moved there when I wasnt even 18 and it wasnt my decision so yes i didnt know about australian policies. Must admit. I am not showing anything just putting my views in the thread. If you think i shouldnt do that than I promise i wont do it again.

"If you have got problems like paying loans or any debt, then pay it off..It's your responsibility..Australian Government is not responsible for that" This just tell me that you dont have much experience of "real world"

You put ur views and I put mine and a resonable person can decide Otherwise we can continue like this for ever.
 
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atishmohan said:
Brahm ji,
First of all thanks for your judgement.Very much appreciated. Yeah i might have lost my patience..Reason being, i see so many people who live in a country which they don't like..they earn $$ and then they start complaining like a kid...I would like to class them as clown.."Bhai Desh Badiya Nahi Lagta to Ghar Chale Jao...Kaun Keh raha hai ki yahan rukna hai..Aakhir aapka hi to decison tha yahan aane ka..abb kyu Ro rahe ho".
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Atish,

You have mentioned this $$ point a couple of times. At the end of the day, you get paid (dollar, rupee, pound) for the work you do. No one is giving away dollars in charity. Nor have you stolen the money. It is a give and take relationship. They need you as much as you need them. And by extension, you don't lose your right to complain against an injustice. I mean, even illegal immigrants and refugees have some basic human rights. Here we are talking about legal migrants, who are also tax payers. As a tax payer, one has full right to complain vociferously against any injustices, irrespective of whether he/she is a native or a migrant.
 
NOT A NEW THING ,SEEDS TO BREED AGAIN,

HUMAN RIGHT COMMISSION REPORT AUSTRALIA




Participants gave several examples of racism and racial discrimination in Kalgoorlie,WESTERN AUSTRALIA ,


  • White shopkeepers who keep any Aboriginal person under close surveillance, treating all black people as if they are preparing to steal something.
  • An Aboriginal person whose neighbour of three years - a teacher - crosses the road to avoid him and his family.
  • A Maori woman who enquired about an advertised vacant property for rent, to be told the house was no longer available. The house was advertised as still vacant a few days later.
  • Police officers monitoring any group of Aboriginal people gathered in a public place.
  • An Aboriginal man who was banned from the local hospital - one participant conceded the man was a difficult patient, but said the hospital had a duty of care to the man.
 
vipin80 said:
Atish,

The topic is about racism. I have learnt a lot from australia. I was able to go on world tour twice because of Australia. It helped me a lot in personal and professional life. Despite these facts racism is a reality. I dont say what I hear. I only say what I felt and I have already made it clear many time that these are just my perceptions. As Bhram said different people has different views and thats the beauty of these forums.

But somehow I feel your posts are some time contradictory and I also feel that sometime you dont read things carefully. Regarding the britishers I have already said that " reason are different" still you asking me the same thing again. BTW lot of people move overseas for business. To move for the hope of good life style and quick bucks is also a business.

I am sorry if i have hurt your feelings.

So people over there complain to you "Yaar Gore se jayada vasta matt rakhoo..inse door hi raho to accha hai.." ha ha this is not a complain I guess? This is their advise but I would say do mix with them where ever u can that will help you understand their view point.

I moved there when I wasnt even 18 and it wasnt my decision so yes i didnt know about australian policies. Must admit. I am not showing anything just putting my views in the thread. If you think i shouldnt do that than I promise i wont do it again.

"If you have got problems like paying loans or any debt, then pay it off..It's your responsibility..Australian Government is not responsible for that" This just tell me that you dont have much experience of "real world"

You put ur views and I put mine and a resonable person can decide Otherwise we can continue like this for ever.
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Bhaiye....

I don't know what is wrong with you....Sorry, i did'nt know about that we are discussing upon RACISM..All of my post on this forum are on something else..Thanks for letting me know..Evertime i impugn you with some logic , you come up with another question..First of all you claimed that how many Indians do you know who are working at senior level in Aus companies..Or how many Indians are working at middle management level..I answered that..One i know is my relative..Director..I reckon one can class that as senior level post..or if not may be somewhere close to senior level..Everyone in Australia knows how many Indians work at middle management...And i gave you some logical answer that why there not many Indians at senior level in Aus companies..Please refer to my last post..

Then you argued upon Indian taxi drivers ..I gave you logical answer..But i reckon you are out of your mind..You still think situation is really different..

"Yaar Gore se jayada vasta matt rakhoo..inse door hi raho to accha hai.."

Bhai i don't know where you put this line..But i guess it's more or less a complain and suggestion along..


"If you have got problems like paying loans or any debt, then pay it off..It's your responsibility..Australian Government is not responsible for that" This just tell me that you dont have much experience of "real world"

Baby boy, i didn't know about that..Ohh..sorry i am not in real world..I live in virtual world where i am typing these words...Sorry i work on virtualisation technologies as well..Vmware, a virtualisation poineer..May be i am under those impressions..

Bhai, Thanks for you all replies...Appreciated..But i cannot discuss further..
 
kapil.dalal said:
Atish,

You have mentioned this $$ point a couple of times. At the end of the day, you get paid (dollar, rupee, pound) for the work you do. No one is giving away dollars in charity. Nor have you stolen the money. It is a give and take relationship. They need you as much as you need them. And by extension, you don't lose your right to complain against an injustice. I mean, even illegal immigrants and refugees have some basic human rights. Here we are talking about legal migrants, who are also tax payers. As a tax payer, one has full right to complain vociferously against any injustices, irrespective of whether he/she is a native or a migrant.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kapil for your reply..Spot on and i can't beat that..All i was saying that there are people who live half heartedly in some country because they don't like the culture..Or may get some cultural shock..or other like victim of discrimination,racism , injustice.. Yes one should complain about discrimination or injustice but if there are no chances of getting justice(although there are) as some people think then i think it's better to leave the place rather than whining..That's why in one of my post..i posted a link where someone can lodge a complaint of racism..but someone still does not believe in any judgment than he may go back...that's it....I may be wrong but that is my perception.but i believe in ,Live life to the fullest.
 
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