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Very nicely put Poonam...Thanks...
Hope Ekta can appreciate these views being expressed by some of our highly
educated and yet very Jatu friends...and pick up some self respect while
doing so....
 
Though I agree with Poonam and Rathee's views that being educated and developed doesn't mean we forget our roots and forgo our cultural values but this point is so general and so veritable that nobody would disagree with it. I think the problem here is "circumsciption of topic", even Ekta would agree with this point even though what she wrote looks opposite but it shouldn't be read literally. I am not saying that talking about Tau, Tai, Katra etc would mean we are not educated but neither that all the time talking about Tau-Tai-Katra would mean we are educated and still adhering to our cultural roots. I think what Ekta had in mind that there so many other things to talk about our history and cultural and current social problems that the projection and portrayl of Jat culture just based on Tau-Tai-Katra is incomplete if not wrong. We should not leave our social practices and values but our community deserves better than jokes like "Jat re jat tere sir pe khat", most plausible theory(for me) of our origin is Yadu(Yadav) tribe, personalities like Sri Krishna may have belonged to us then why Jats are just seen as uneducated peasants?

One of my friend studied in Oman and during a general chat she said that the only thing she knows about JAT is "Just Avoid Them" (of course as a joke). Do you think if I had cracked a couple of Tau joke in front of her would have made her think any better of JAT? Again I am not saying there is anything wrong in these jokes but a little bit of explanantion of context of joke should be conveyed to those who know nothing about Jats otherwise there are not even funny for some non-jat people. I have tried it. I know a lot can be discussed on this but its like 'preaching to the choir' because essentially Ekta and Poonam's point of view are not in contrast but misunderstanding of each other.

About Moderators: I observed that these days lots of threads are deleted without giving any explanation. I can't see a thread in which I posted a message yesterday(unless my eyes gone bad). This kind of behavior on moderators' behalf makes Jatland unworthy of sincerity and concern that serious members(like me) commit to it.

-Vinod
 
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vinodks said:
I know a lot can be discussed on this but its like 'preaching to the choir' because essentially Ekta and Poonam's point of view are not in contrast but misunderstanding of each other.
Vinod

I'm sorry to say,Vinod....but looks like you misunderstood me here.. :)

And also no inclination to repeat myself again!!
 
poonam said:
I'm sorry to say,Vinod....but looks like you misunderstood me here.. :)

And also no inclination to repeat myself again!!

Poonamji, sorry for misunderstanding but I tried my best... gussa mat hona:-))))

-vinod
 
Dear Vinod, thanks for sharing your views on the subject!

About the actions of the moderators, probably you came on the site a little belatedly. The discussin on the thread has taken an ugly turn .One of our members who claims to be believer of Gandhian philosophy of non-violence was violent himself. Probaby he doesn't know the actual Ghandhian philosophy of non-violence. Just to remind the friend involed in that discussion; According to Gndhiji violenc is physical, verbal and mental. When hurt is caused by the body, it is physical, for example beating for no cause, torture etc.When hurt caused with words, words of hate and anger to wound somebody"s self-respect, the violence is verbal.When somebody thinks ill of oanother, plansevil and even thinks of murdering out of jealously, hate or anger, violence is mental. That is pecisely what our friend was doing, engaging himself and others in "verbal violence". Of course our other friend was responsible too for feuling his thoughts. And at that point probably it become necessary for the moderators to intervene.

Vinod I think in this case the moderators have acted judiciously.
 
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Gimme a break!

vinodks said:
Though I agree with Poonam and Rathee's views that being educated and developed doesn't mean we forget our roots and forgo our cultural values but this point is so general and so veritable that nobody would disagree with it. I think the problem here is "circumsciption of topic", even Ekta would agree with this point even though what she wrote looks opposite but it shouldn't be read literally. I am not saying that talking about Tau, Tai, Katra etc would mean we are not educated but neither that all the time talking about Tau-Tai-Katra would mean we are educated and still adhering to our cultural roots. I think what Ekta had in mind that there so many other things to talk about our history and cultural and current social problems that the projection and portrayl of Jat culture just based on Tau-Tai-Katra is incomplete if not wrong. We should not leave our social practices and values but our community deserves better than jokes like "Jat re jat tere sir pe khat", most plausible theory(for me) of our origin is Yadu(Yadav) tribe, personalities like Sri Krishna may have belonged to us then why Jats are just seen as uneducated peasants?

One of my friend studied in Oman and during a general chat she said that the only thing she knows about JAT is "Just Avoid Them" (of course as a joke). Do you think if I had cracked a couple of Tau joke in front of her would have made her think any better of JAT? Again I am not saying there is anything wrong in these jokes but a little bit of explanantion of context of joke should be conveyed to those who know nothing about Jats otherwise there are not even funny for some non-jat people. I have tried it. I know a lot can be discussed on this but its like 'preaching to the choir' because essentially Ekta and Poonam's point of view are not in contrast but misunderstanding of each other.

About Moderators: I observed that these days lots of threads are deleted without giving any explanation. I can't see a thread in which I posted a message yesterday(unless my eyes gone bad). This kind of behavior on moderators' behalf makes Jatland unworthy of sincerity and concern that serious members(like me) commit to it.

-Vinod

???... So yeah, ok! point taken. And so?.....well, I would say that when you meet next people like your friend in Oman just make a good guess as always and don't slapstick your beliefs and Jaatuness on anyone that may be offended with it! Right? Period!...No big deal! :cool:
But having said that, and coming back to the main post about Jatland; Aren't we discussing here less about how not to behave infront of other community members, but more about what happens or should happen on a Website! Our Website...a website for Jats!!?!! Who do you think would be offended with Tau-Tai, Raagni jokes, or Jaatu Discussions and friendly banters HERE???...Who?

What are we talking about then? Well then who is more confused with the whole discussion here???...

You know Vinod yaar, I realy take offense this time around cause now the support of the whole pointless matter is coming NOT from a new member (BTW she has disappeared from the scene altogether, didn't she?)...but is coming from someone like you, someone who has been on this website for some time now and understands...but then to say that talking of Tau-tai-Katra etc. all the time (?) might be regressing!?!...(comeon, maybe you or anyone who just sees the site as just THAT needs to move out of the Humor/Timepass section sometimes and maybe read the other authentic discussions that happen here on the site all the time too!)...

ps. Oh and about the other thread being frozen, maybe you completely missed the fact that someone was getting quite 'nasty' with his posts in there...(I am sure while preaching me how to not 'ruffle' his feathers anymore you failed to notice that! ;) ) You know, I think it was best frozen by the moderators, cause I was just beginning to warm up, if you know what I mean jelly bean (What? Come on man, You serious!?!...You mean you did not really like my 'aage se-peeche se' creative kavita's??? ;) )...although I do agree it is a shame cause the post was quite a good and genuine one and all the efforts and details mentioned in there of Sujata out on the Help mission to New Orleans got lost in the process! :mad:
 
Let me refine my argument:
1) I agree that we were talking about what kind of Jat image is being projected in Jatland(which is a closed community of Jats) but not how its being done infront of outsiders. But these two aspects are not independent, becuz if we implicitly assume this double-role it would be on the cost of little duplicity. We may not be talking all the time about Tau-Tai-Katra in other forums except humor but again I didn't literally meant that, most of useless posts like Hanuman being Jat, Mallika serawat, Hooda's dowry case, Resign and Taking rebirth in Jatland, welcome-welcome-welcome etc fall in that category. I agree sometimes usefull stuff also gets discussed here. But I think it would improve in time.

2) One reason I supported Ekta's point of view was that I am sure she didn't mean literally what she said and it looked unseemly the way she (as a newcomer) got bashed by seasoned members. Her inflaming sentence "..aren't we educated now" shows lack of proper words to convey her view but not meant to be read literally. If she joins discussion now by saying thats exactly what she meant then I would say she is being wrong.

3) I found your remark "..aage se gilli, peeche se pilli" very funny the first time I read it. But when it appeared four times as a reply to Jeetendra Sinsinwar's whinning, I wanted to say that its not good to keep pulling someone's leg all the time when that person takes things seriously and posts something becuz of which threads get scratched. I also enjoy leg-pulling but when it comes to hurt someone I don't.

4) I think I missed the fight in that thread:-(((( so sad... I didn't check posts on time and it got scratched. So I have no complaints against moderators.

-Vinod
 
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...Achcha Theek hai!

vinodks said:
Let me refine my argument:
3) I found your remark "..aage se gilli, peeche se pilli" very funny the first time I read it. But when it appeared four times as a reply to Jitendra's whinning, I wanted to say that its not good to keep pulling someone's leg all the time when that person takes things seriously and posts something becuz of which threads get scratched.
-Vinod

LOL! Kya yaar, itnae mushkil sae baith kae kavita bananae ki koshish kee thee...I was almost ready to copyright the 'geeli-peeli' into great journal/writer archives! ;)
Chalo koi baat nahee...point well taken, too many times and the poor guy could well have committed Hara-Kiri! (Not that he needed any more prompting though! :rolleyes: )
 
Hooda,
Chalo achha laga you took it in light spirit... wasse Ektaji kahan chali gayi, mein unki absence mein akela kurukshetra ke maidaan mein data hooaa hoon.. madamji duty per hain kya?:-)))

-vinod
 
vinodks said:
Let me refine my argument:
1) I agree that we were talking about what kind of Jat image is being projected in Jatland(which is a closed community of Jats) but not how its being done infront of outsiders. But these two aspects are not independent, becuz if we implicitly assume this double-role it would be on the cost of little duplicity. We may not be talking all the time about Tau-Tai-Katra in other forums except humor but again I didn't literally meant that, most of useless posts like Hanuman being Jat, Mallika serawat, Hooda's dowry case, Resign and Taking rebirth in Jatland, welcome-welcome-welcome etc fall in that category. I agree sometimes usefull stuff also gets discussed here. But I think it would improve in time.

2) One reason I supported Ekta's point of view was that I am sure she didn't mean literally what she said and it looked unseemly the way she (as a newcomer) got bashed by seasoned members. Her inflaming sentence "..aren't we educated now" shows lack of proper words to convey her view but not meant to be read literally. If she joins discussion now by saying thats exactly what she meant then I would say she is being wrong.

3) I found your remark "..aage se gilli, peeche se pilli" very funny the first time I read it. But when it appeared four times as a reply to Jeetendra Sinsinwar's whinning, I wanted to say that its not good to keep pulling someone's leg all the time when that person takes things seriously and posts something becuz of which threads get scratched. I also enjoy leg-pulling but when it comes to hurt someone I don't.

4) I think I missed the fight in that thread:-(((( so sad... I didn't check posts on time and it got scratched. So I have no complaints against moderators.

-Vinod


Vinod, we do appreciate your trying to be
understanding of Ekta's probable inability to
express herself. But on an internet forum we have nothing
much to go on except for the words we see.

It is just so hard to now know who is having what issues,
who suffered what childhood trauma, who just checked
out of a mental ward, or, for that matter, if Vinod is still
intoxicated from the Holi celeberations... (:D) and so on.
If we did we could be more understanding and accomodating.
But we don't. That is why I have repeatedly said here, and will say
again: People shouldn't take anything personally here.
Responses should be seen as words responding to words.
Ideas Vs. ideas. If people can get that I think we'd not
see so many problems here on Jatland.

There are many people here who have mastered this concept
and these people just can't be beaten down...and certainly
aren't the ones who'll "resign"....(Gosh...I laugh everytime
I see that word...). I think Sumit "Libertarian" Dahiya
is one recent addition to this gang. (Welcome Sumit !!)

Now, regarding Ekta's rather careless comments
(or was it poorly expressed ?), I'd prefer piggy
backing on other people's posts since I am damn tired
off squeezing myself under this table of mine....(forgive the
out of context comment for those of you who missed some
recent posts). But still let me add a few bits...

Ekta said:

"Apart from above try to refresh the site by giving the good views here sparing the example
of Jat, Jatni, Tau, Hukka, Katda etc , don't make the site of fools here making the silly la
ugh at jat community.... we are educated now. "

Seemed like she knows what she is talking about, Vinod !
I certainly would appreciate it if she could have let us know
which college she went to and what education and degrees she
got that has made her educated enough to be no longer a
fool. Perhaps, the lesser folks here might benefit and no
longer be seen as fools by whosoever she seems to have placed
on her high pedestals...now that she insists that we care
about the opinions of every "Bunty Shunty" she might have
grown up with that caused her to have such complexes.
Ms. Ekta, I do hope you understand that "Tau" is not just some
character in the Humor section on Jatland ! "Tau" is representative
of every elder Jat in our community. It represents that old man
in our family who sheltered us from all harm; the old man who
came to check on us in the midst of the night and asked our mums. "Beti,
bhai ka taap tae na sae eeb? Taap ho tae Daaktur ne le ke
aaon"; that old man who changed three buses to visit us in our
hostels to ensure we were doing fine and had enough "Ghee"; that
old man who smacked his "doga" on our mischeivious arses to make
sure we stayed on track; that old man who pulled out three hundred
rupees from his secret and meagre savings so that we could buy
the "Shiyahee Choos", which we tricked him into believing
was some rather expensive but very important "blotting paper".

That is what I see when I hear the word "Tau" ! When I hear the
word "Hukka" I see this old man majestically sitting in his "Poli"
ever watchful of his family members. That tobacco smell permeates
around my imagination reassuring me of his presence.

.....Well, I hope you are not missing the point. Our "Tau"s,
and his "Hukka", the "Katda" and everything we talk about
on this site, laugh at or enjoy in any way here is the very
backbone of our nature and our strength. It is the very fabric
of our existence. It represents who
we are and where we are coming from. It is the legs and
shoulders that we have stood on and come this far.

How you could possibly have used the word "fools" within
any of this, or even thought that your being "educated"
(and I see absolutely nothing from you that would bolster
such a claim on your part...) should now free you from
your imaginary shackles is just way beyond me.

Learn to acknowledge who you are, where you came from,
and be proud but not arrogant of it. Derive your strength
from it. If you forget your roots, you will end
up being a rudderless boat.

This site allows us to celebrate our roots, to not forget
who we are despite being thousands of miles away from home.
Some of us have grown up and spent most of our lives
outside of India, and yet it is "Tau" and his "Hukka"
that continues to give us strength. And we too are
not lacking in any education....no, not by any stretch
of imagination.

[And like I alluded to before....my comments are
not directed at Ekta or anyone specifically. It merely
represents my feelings and views in response to ideas
seen under post #1. :D]
 
Rathee, your symbolic description of Tau and hukka was touching and I fully understand the importance of adhering to one's cultural roots and I can very well identify myself with lower-middle class of uneducated farmers since till midldle class, I studied in an obscure village where bus goes but just 3 times a day, postman comes from nearby village to deliver letters and women fight over tap water. So I think I know in-and-out of this-and-that and I realize that beside good qualities of our people and our culture, there are certain social problems that need to be improved. These things are not water, electricity and employment etc. these things reside in people's mind. But that doesn't make our land any worse to us but offers opportunities to give it back what I drew from it. Jatland is place of people of such kind. So there is more to be done than celeberate the beauty of Tau concept. There are some Taus who don't smoke their hukka if its touched by a 'chamaar'(SC), why? Aren't they our people? But all these things aren't related to the argument of projection of Jat image.

All that was digression:-)) I backed Ekta becuase of reverence to her profession and thought what she said might have be slip of tongue as Rathee also once made mistake of calling Hindi and Sanskrit medium schools as hell:-)
But since Ekta vanished after making us fight I no longer support her.

Vinod
 
vinodks said:
Jatland is place of people of such kind. So there is more to be done than celeberate the beauty of Tau concept.
Vinod

Absolutely ! And Tau and his Hukka certainly are not impeding anyone
from doing anything they want for the community !

Iss site pe space ki kami toh nahin hai ! At least not that I have heard of. Anyone
seriously "doing" is fully encouraged to have a blast, and go for it. I have not
heard "Tau" complaining .....

I am sure Ms Ekta had some serious plans on how she was going
to do her part in upliftment of the community ([excuse me while I choke
in my own sarcasm]), and will let us know how she felt that "Tau" was
messing up her plans.... :rolleyes:
 
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raj_rathee said:
Absolutely ! And Tau and his Hukka certainly are not impeding anyone
from doing anything they want for the community !
:

Thanks for very encouraging words. In life if you ever get respite from your choking in sarcasm and wonder what "you" can DO, you can talk to me. Till then see ya, me not going to waste my time here anymore.

Vinod
 
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vinodks said:
Thanks for very encouraging words. In life if you ever get respite from your choking in sarcasm and wonder what "you" can DO, you can talk to me. Till then see ya.

Vinod

Hmmm ! Yeh consulting services provide karne ke liye H1B hai kya ?
:eek:

Relax yaar ! You are just taking my comments on yourself whereas
these weren't directed at you.... :)
 
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Friends:
I have not followed this thread to make sweeping comments but this is another example of multitude of words/sentences being used to speculate on the intended meaning of wrong use of words.
How can you engage in useful dialogue without precise (intended) use of language? Does that not underlie the importance of using correct language?
In an argumentative exchange it would become extremely difficult to find out incorrect use of language and provide alternate answers to all possible interpretations. If somebody wants to learn the language than it least the arguments have to be avoided or better avoid people who always argue and/or need substantial improvements in their language. (I would rather stick to this policy than solicit forum usage policies to control my posts or drink bournvita,aka poonam).
Best
anmol.
(I hope sahora, sandeep dahiya and all "high-moral-standard, bash-sardar, spare-the-rest" group is reading this reply; and i feel fortunate that this thing has arisen out of its own for me to emphasize the significance of reasonably proper use of langauge rather than dig it out from somewhere.)
 
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It seems Ekta has withdran her from the discussion and you guys are discussing it out among urself w/o initiator.
 
Is it a Good Disscussion?

Dear Members,

Ms. Ekta had given a very good point to ponder, but I see lots of bashing in the garb of showing and proving to show one's love for their mother toung/language (trying to be on safer side so that the correct meaning of words is understood).

Firstly, by communicating in Haryanvi, or Jattu as many of us call it, does not mean that you are the only one who loves his/her culture. Any discussion is fruitful if it communicate well among the people. If it does not, then we land up in the discussion that is going on here. Manoj Rana has given a very good point about disussion going heywhile at some point or other if not moderated.

In the last Jat Picnic, I was trying to introduce the new members of the community, and trying to thank those who worked hard to make the function successful, using Bolchal Ki Bhasha Hindi and using some words of English, when one of our old folk interrupts, "Bhai Haryanvi Mein Bol" Well, I tried to make him happy to use some words of Haryanvi, when some members said that these kids who have been born and brought up don't understand the "Theth Haryanvi" and the Bolchal Ki Bhasha that was used was perfect for the setting. The question here is what is understood by the audiance that is what communication means. I am not a communication specialist, but I see my wise friends "most of them happen to be in IT industry which is the back bone of communication" are bashing Ekta for a very genuine point that she has raised. I may be a poor student of learning the language, but having spent most of my life with the people from Haryana, I myself have not been able to learn and understand "Theth Haryanvi" Language myself.

I am not scared or ashamed of using littlebit of Haryanvi Language myself including some "Jokes" of Tau or Katda if the setting is right and the audiance is able to understand what I am trying to convey, but to use it every time when the audiance/readers are as large as you see on internet, then using only Haryanvi or propogating it to that extent or identifying the use of Haryanvi with the love and hate of your own culture is some thing beyond my beliefs.

Let us grant Ekta that she did raise a good point and see her views in this light.
 
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