Walking with Comrades

On the actions themselves, he is one of the better home ministers India has had.


Humm.. Directing the CBI after the opposition leaders and security agencies for taping phones to fulfill the personal agenda of his own and his followers. Obviously after all this, neither he nor his ministry has any time left for the country. – Wondering.. what could have made someone call the minister "one of better home ministers"? Unless off course, if one is direct beneficiary of the "Home" ministry.
What issue does the minister have if self-governance is allowed in the tribal areas? I don't think of anything other than the mineral mines which is a big pump for the corrupt to fill their Swiss accounts.
 
you got no idea what you are talking !...
Yeap Samar, you never know when those weapons (CBI & all) could be target at you... unless you are in safe heavens (offshore).
I heard, some IT law was passed quietly (without any debate at all) sometime back that makes the openness of speech no better than that of China.
 
Humm.. Directing the CBI after the opposition leaders and security agencies for taping phones to fulfill the personal agenda of his own and his followers. Obviously after all this, neither he nor his ministry has any time left for the country. – Wondering.. what could have made someone call the minister "one of better home ministers"? Unless off course, if one is direct beneficiary of the "Home" ministry.
What issue does the minister have if self-governance is allowed in the tribal areas? I don't think of anything other than the mineral mines which is a big pump for the corrupt to fill their Swiss accounts.

I am not a direct or indirect beneficiary of the home ministry. You can argue without giving your imagination a flight. Should I say that you are arguing in favor of Maoists as you are a Chinese agent?

Better is a relative term. Do you have a comparison of home ministers on parameters you have listed- tapping phones, CBI, etc? Intelligence agencies have always been used by the govts. against their political opponents. It is not right but if you do a RELATIVE comparison, most other home ministers would come out to be even worse. Anyways, my appreciation is based on the stand taken by him on police reforms, Maoists and internal security. Unfortunately he is not getting the support of his own party and has to dilute his position to make it in sync with the "high command". Doesn't take anything away from his personal ability and views.

What do you mean by self-governance? Please elaborate. I don't think it is going to be a file in his drawer that he can take out and give away. I won't be surprised if what you are asking for needs to be implemented at the state level or needs legislation. And self-governance by who- Maoists? I hope you know their declared objective is to overthrow the Indian state through protracted people's war. So the state should cede power to those who wish to overthrow it? If you mean tribals and not Maoists, then there are already tribals in power. Tribals stand for elections in tribal areas. And self-governance by tribals doesn't translate into lesser corruption. Guys like Shibu Soren and Madhu Koda are also tribals.

There are a lot of things that need to be improved. But nothing can be improved till Maoists are there. You can't expect development to happen in a warzone.
 
Yeap Samar, you never know when those weapons (CBI & all) could be target at you... unless you are in safe heavens (offshore).
I heard, some IT law was passed quietly (without any debate at all) sometime back that makes the openness of speech no better than that of China.

You heard? Did it become a part of some secret constitution? It'd be better if you know what you are objecting against rather than just lapping up every wild conspiracy theory.
 
You heard? Did it become a part of some secret constitution? It'd be better if you know what you are objecting against rather than just lapping up every wild conspiracy theory.

Kapil, neither have I said it's a secret constitution (in fact I am unaware of any secret constitution in India) nor am I lapping up anything. I have heard that, blogs, causal chats, email etc are now admissible as a proof in the court. Do a search in the internet, and hopefully, you will find some pointers.
 
I am not a direct or indirect beneficiary of the home ministry. You can argue without giving your imagination a flight. Should I say that you are arguing in favor of Maoists as you are a Chinese agent?

Better is a relative term. Do you have a comparison of home ministers on parameters you have listed- tapping phones, CBI, etc? Intelligence agencies have always been used by the govts. against their political opponents. It is not right but if you do a RELATIVE comparison, most other home ministers would come out to be even worse. Anyways, my appreciation is based on the stand taken by him on police reforms, Maoists and internal security. Unfortunately he is not getting the support of his own party and has to dilute his position to make it in sync with the "high command". Doesn't take anything away from his personal ability and views.

What do you mean by self-governance? Please elaborate. I don't think it is going to be a file in his drawer that he can take out and give away. I won't be surprised if what you are asking for needs to be implemented at the state level or needs legislation. And self-governance by who- Maoists? I hope you know their declared objective is to overthrow the Indian state through protracted people's war. So the state should cede power to those who wish to overthrow it? If you mean tribals and not Maoists, then there are already tribals in power. Tribals stand for elections in tribal areas. And self-governance by tribals doesn't translate into lesser corruption. Guys like Shibu Soren and Madhu Koda are also tribals.

There are a lot of things that need to be improved. But nothing can be improved till Maoists are there. You can't expect development to happen in a warzone.

The Maists/Naxals (both are tribal) want to practice a different style of governance which somewhat resembles with communism. I don't think there is any harm in allowing them to do so, as long as it remains democratic and part of the overall country.

I don't think they are interested in anything that is an inch more than the tribal land. When they say "to overthrow the Indian state", I believe they mean "to overthrow the Indian government within the tribal land"

Development is the basic cause of the conflict, so the conflict cannot be an inhibitor for development. There is difference between what is projected in records and what actually happens at ground level. It is this root cause (corruption) that needs to be fought with, killing people, whoever they are, is not a solution it will only spread the violence.
 
Arvind/ Samar,

The reason why there has been no military action in the naxal areas is the stand of Honourable Home Minister (since Samar decided to use his attitude language intentionally, I thought it would make sense to use the proper address for him intentionally) after Dantewara massacre by Naxal Terrorists, and this was not his weakness, but his keenness to solve the Naxal problem. To show that he really cared for the people of the land.

Arvind,
Regarding your claims on what Naxal actually mean, should I assume that you are their official representative and not Kishenji, who claims that they would capture Delhi by 2025. Please confirm!

I have never seen chances of development in war/homewar torn areas. You can see what is happeneing in Iraq, Afghanistan, South Sudan, or Pakistan. So if its all about development, I dont think it is going to happen by the way Naxal Terorrists are trying. Had development been on their agenda at all, Naxal could have shown some of their intentions in the areas controlled by them.

Talking of the self governance, I don't think nobody stops you fighting elections in a democratic India. But they want a system like China that ensure that only they win the election, which is the real cause of concern.

Finally, with respect to your comment on anybody supporting a government elected by people of India being direct beneficiary of the system: Yes, I agree that we are direct benefeciaries of the system because of the following reasons:
1. I can express my views on any topic, unlike your model state China, where government (err ... party ) decides what is to be written about what.
2. I can reside in any part of country, unlike your model state China, where government (err ... party ) decides who will live where.
3. I can fight election for any post , unlike your model state China, where government (err ... party ) decides who will be what.
 
The Maists/Naxals (both are tribal) want to practice a different style of governance which somewhat resembles with communism. I don't think there is any harm in allowing them to do so, as long as it remains democratic and part of the overall country.

I don't think they are interested in anything that is an inch more than the tribal land. When they say "to overthrow the Indian state", I believe they mean "to overthrow the Indian government within the tribal land"

Development is the basic cause of the conflict, so the conflict cannot be an inhibitor for development. There is difference between what is projected in records and what actually happens at ground level. It is this root cause (corruption) that needs to be fought with, killing people, whoever they are, is not a solution it will only spread the violence.

Sorry to say Arvind, but your post represents all that is wrong with the stand of those sympathising with the Maoists.

1. The leadership of Maoists are NOT tribals. You can check it yourself. Going back in history to Naxalbari from where it all started, it has never been a spontaneous peasants/tribals uprising. Back then it was Charu Mazumdar and Kanu Sanyal, prominent Communists, who split CPI(M) to form CPI(M-L) with full & vocal support from China. They led the so-called movement at Naxalbari and they were neither tribals nor peasants. Now it is Kishenji and his cohorts. You know, there were lots of Indians in the British Army who fought for Britain in World War 2. In fact, Indians were sometimes on both sides of the war- representing Allied forces and Axis forces. Was it their war? They may have died in hordes, but in the end Britishers won the war and Japanese lost it. The Indians were just foot soldiers. Same is the case with tribals. They are on both sides of the war. Who are the people in local police and Salwa Judum fighting the Maoists? They are also tribals. On Maoist side, tribals don't decide the objectives or the strategy. They just carry out the orders. Please read these 2 interviews by an ex-Maoist leader of tribal origin. He is no saint, but this gives some perspective on the HUGE difference between an Adivasi and a Maoist. The third link is a prominent analyst who deals with this issue comprehensively.
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main43.asp?filename=Ne270210our_fight.asp
http://naxalwatch.blogspot.com/2010/03/maoists-have-killed-more-than-200.html
http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2010/04/27/maoists-are-not-tribals/

2. What do you mean by "different style of governance" and "somewhat resembles communism". Let's not be ambiguous about it. It is silly to come up with charitable explanations about what Maoists are interested in (not an inch more than trible land as you say) or what they mean (overthrow the Indian govt. within the tribal land as per you). Maoists have openly declared their agenda and there is no ambiguity there. This is their constitution:
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/maoist/documents/papers/partyconstitution.htm

You can go through the horrifying details, but I will highlight some key points on which you have some confusion, emphasis and italics are mine. This is from Aims and Objectives:
The immediate aim of the party is to accomplish the New Democratic Revolution in India [and not tribal areas only] by verthrowing imperialism, feudalism and comprador bureaucratic capitalism only through the Protracted People’s War [note only through war and not democratic means] and establishes the people’s democratic dictatorship [wow dictatorship that is democratic, can you think of examples?]under the leadership of the proletariat. It will further fight for the establishment of socialism. The ultimate aim of the party is to bring about communism [Clear aim, No ambiguity] by continuing the revolution under the leadership of the proletariat and thus abolishing the system of exploitation of man by man from the face of earth.

This is from the programme section:
The immediate and most urgent task of the party is to establish full-fledged people’s liberation army (PLA) [That is incidentally also the name for Chinese army] and base areas by developing and transforming the guerilla zones and guerrilla bases.

3. Your sentence on development-conflict relationship didn't make any sense to me. How can development happen in a conflict zone? What is meant by development? Building schools, roads, hospitals and having doctors, engineers, teachers, etc. on the ground, right? Is that possible in a conflict zone? Who is going to go to warzone to provide services, would you volunteer? When soldiers can't go to an area, how'd teachers go? What is needed is a Clear (the Maoists)- Hold (the position and secure it)- Build (roads, schools, etc.); which Chidambram had articulated and was following. First home minister to do so, just to show why he is better.

4. I am fully with you that violence is not the solution. But I don't understand how you can support Maoists, who have violence enshrined in their constitution as means to achieve their end goal of total power. It is a doctrine that precedes Naxalbari or any other "movement" in India and doesn't even have its origin in India. Maoist violence is neither going to lead to development, nor lead to weeding out of corruption.

5. It is simplistic to blame corruption for any and every issue. Yeah, corruption is bad, but it doesn't lead to Maoist insurgency. If that was the case, then whole world would be suffering from Maoist terror. It is not as if all tribals are morally upright beings who are being exploited by corrupt outsiders. Tribals are the poor ones whose condition is bad, as well as the corrupt ones like Shibu Soren and Madhu Koda.
 
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Though I am against any type of violance, but lately i have been having second thoughts. These days I am in USA and in free time have been reading some books on American-Indian history. How ruthlessly Europeans forced these poor natives out of their territoroes through one sided treaties sent chilling waves through my spine. In 1760 Native Indians fought very smartly and brought British to their knees. However, because of limited resources and holding capacity, they could not fight any further. Resut has been almost total annihilation of their culture and identity. Think of our tribe from the same angle. What all options these poor people have? If media and our own corrupt Jat politicians can bring humiliation to us, what one can expect for Adivasies? Gandi was fortunate that his adversaries were civilised and had some regad for civil behaviour. Can we say the same of adversaries these poor Adivasies have been facing? If farmers of western UP can be exploited by mill owners and corrupt babus, what all msut be happening with Adivasies? There is need for national debate on the whole issue. I am sure there are elements who must exploiting naxal violance to further their interests, but there are ground realities which made these poor people behave this way.

RK^2
 
The Maists/Naxals (both are tribal) want to practice a different style of governance which somewhat resembles with communism. I don't think there is any harm in allowing them to do so, as long as it remains democratic and part of the overall country.

I don't think they are interested in anything that is an inch more than the tribal land. When they say "to overthrow the Indian state", I believe they mean "to overthrow the Indian government within the tribal land"

Development is the basic cause of the conflict, so the conflict cannot be an inhibitor for development. There is difference between what is projected in records and what actually happens at ground level. It is this root cause (corruption) that needs to be fought with, killing people, whoever they are, is not a solution it will only spread the violence.

If their demand for regional autonomy is justified then what is wrong with autonomy in J & K , do you support this dispensation?. On the same analogy, was Bhinderawale and Jagjit Singh Chauhan's demand for a separate 'Khalistan' also genuine ?
 
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History of Naxalism :

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/nm2/History-of-Naxalism/225549/Article1-6545.aspx

Charu Majumdar reference archive
Thanks Atish for sharing the information. Sometime back I had also gave a brief introduction of Masterji, (Mazum Dada). I reproduce the relevant portion:
While digging deeper about 20 year back, I found the roots of Naxalism in Naxalbari a small village in Bengal. A master ji Charu Mazumdar, also a drug addict, a card holder of CPI(M) drifted away from the party due to some personal reasons (may be under the influence of drug) and formed a splinter group which came to be branded as Naxalites. According to my information the present “Andolan” by Naxalites in tribal areas has taken inspiration from the same ideology (hardcore Marxism, as suggested by Moa Tse Tung and Stalin) and followed, in letter and spirit, by Comrade Charu Mazumdar and two of his well known colleagues Jangle Santhal and Sanu Kanyal. I do not think that the present leadership has diluted that theory and have switched over to some “Sufi Andolan” or Bhaktivadi Andolan. They also do not seem to have embraced non-violent “Gandhism”. The same theory is still working behind their so called “legitimate movement”.

(Please do not think that I have just downloaded this information from any encyclopaedia or any other source only today to reply your post. This I read more than 20 years back in a magazine called “Illustrated Weekly” – no more in circulation I think. I may be corrected, in case of any distortion)
 
Sorry to say Arvind, but your post represents all that is wrong with the stand of those sympathising with the Maoists.
1. The leadership of Maoists are NOT tribals. You can check it yourself. Going back in history to Naxalbari from where it all started, it has never been a spontaneous peasants/tribals uprising. Back then it was Charu Mazumdar and Kanu Sanyal, prominent Communists, who split CPI(M) to form CPI(M-L) with full & vocal support from China. They led the so-called movement at Naxalbari and they were neither tribals nor peasants. Now it is Kishenji and his cohorts. You know, there were lots of Indians in the British Army who fought for Britain in World War 2. In fact, Indians were sometimes on both sides of the war- representing Allied forces and Axis forces. Was it their war? They may have died in hordes, but in the end Britishers won the war and Japanese lost it. The Indians were just foot soldiers. Same is the case with tribals. They are on both sides of the war. Who are the people in local police and Salwa Judum fighting the Maoists? They are also tribals. On Maoist side, tribals don't decide the objectives or the strategy. They just carry out the orders. Please read these 2 interviews by an ex-Maoist leader of tribal origin. He is no saint, but this gives some perspective on the HUGE difference between an Adivasi and a Maoist. The third link is a prominent analyst who deals with this issue comprehensively.
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main43.asp?filename=Ne270210our_fight.asp
http://naxalwatch.blogspot.com/2010/03/maoists-have-killed-more-than-200.html
http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2010/04/27/maoists-are-not-tribals/

The Indian government has a habit of blaming the neighbors for every problem. Yes, the neighbors are not good neighbors however; many of the issues are internal as well. The issue with Maoists/Naxalites is an internal problem. You need to remember that this is a mass movement. A mass movement has an objective that addresses the concern of the masses not just few people. Even if you remove the above people, the movement would continue. Even if it is assumed that the leaders are not tribal’s, the movement, as a whole, is addressing the concerns of the tribal population.

The fact that Sonia Gandhi Ji , who is heading the congress party and not an Indian by birth, does not mean that the Congress party is not working for the welfare of the Indian people. In fact she seems to be more concerned than some of the India origin politicians.
2. What do you mean by "different style of governance" and "somewhat resembles communism". Let's not be ambiguous about it. It is silly to come up with charitable explanations about what Maoists are interested in (not an inch more than trible land as you say) or what they mean (overthrow the Indian govt. within the tribal land as per you). Maoists have openly declared their agenda and there is no ambiguity there. This is their constitution:
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/maoist/documents/papers/partyconstitution.htm

You can go through the horrifying details, but I will highlight some key points on which you have some confusion, emphasis and italics are mine. This is from Aims and Objectives:
The immediate aim of the party is to accomplish the New Democratic Revolution in India [and not tribal areas only] by verthrowing imperialism, feudalism and comprador bureaucratic capitalism only through the Protracted People’s War [note only through war and not democratic means] and establishes the people’s democratic dictatorship [wow dictatorship that is democratic, can you think of examples?]under the leadership of the proletariat. It will further fight for the establishment of socialism. The ultimate aim of the party is to bring about communism [Clear aim, No ambiguity] by continuing the revolution under the leadership of the proletariat and thus abolishing the system of exploitation of man by man from the face of earth.

This is from the programme section:
The immediate and most urgent task of the party is to establish full-fledged people’s liberation army (PLA) [That is incidentally also the name for Chinese army] and base areas by developing and transforming the guerilla zones and guerrilla bases.

The tribals had been a victim of the "democratic" (in indian context, the word is actally a misnomer - see my earlier posts) government and have no faith in it.


The statements that you have mentioned may be the ambitions of few. However, they are definitely not the aim of the mass movement. What needs to be addressed is the concern of the masses. The fact that the government is shadowing the concerns of the masses by calling the whole movement as “terrorism” and foreign sponsored itself gives an indication that there isn’t any real intention of addressing the issues of the masses.

3. Your sentence on development-conflict relationship didn't make any sense to me. How can development happen in a conflict zone? What is meant by development? Building schools, roads, hospitals and having doctors, engineers, teachers, etc. on the ground, right? Is that possible in a conflict zone? Who is going to go to warzone to provide services, would you volunteer? When soldiers can't go to an area, how'd teachers go? What is needed is a Clear (the Maoists)- Hold (the position and secure it)- Build (roads, schools, etc.); which Chidambram had articulated and was following. First home minister to do so, just to show why he is better.
What is stopping the government in distributing medicines in the forests? I am sure, the Maoists/tribal would welcome it. Instead, what the government is doing is using schools as military base. It has forced hundreds of villages to be abandoned and forced people to live in camps. The whole objective seems to be to move the people from the forest so that capitalists could open more mines and destroy the forest.

Ask the government to use helicopters to spray food packets, instead of bullets, in the situations of floods etc. and see the result.

4. I am fully with you that violence is not the solution. But I don't understand how you can support Maoists, who have violence enshrined in their constitution as means to achieve their end goal of total power. It is a doctrine that precedes Naxalbari or any other "movement" in India and doesn't even have its origin in India. Maoist violence is neither going to lead to development, nor lead to weeding out of corruption.

I believe, the Maoists were forced to take the path of violence. That was the only path left for them. - Read my earlier posts.

5. It is simplistic to blame corruption for any and every issue. Yeah, corruption is bad, but it doesn't lead to Maoist insurgency. If that was the case, then whole world would be suffering from Maoist terror. It is not as if all tribals are morally upright beings who are being exploited by corrupt outsiders. Tribals are the poor ones whose condition is bad, as well as the corrupt ones like Shibu Soren and Madhu Koda.
Yes it is simplistic to say then actually address. However, corruption and governance failure is the root cause of the Maoists movement.
 
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If their demand for regional autonomy is justified then what is wrong with autonomy in J & K , do you support this dispensation?. On the same analogy, was Bhinderawale and Jagjit Singh Chahan's demand for a separate 'Khalistan' also genuine ?

Yes, as long as territorial integrity and the basic framework (democracy) of the country is maintained, I see no issue with allowing the J&K people for a different style of the governance. Punjab problem was different. It was an instant reaction to some of the events which are best left as foregone.

Self-governance through self-determination is the basic essence of United Nations (UN) cartel.
You can read more at “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-governance“ on what I mean by self-governance and at “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination“ by self-determination.
 
The Indian government has a habit of blaming the neighbors for every problem. Yes, the neighbors are not good neighbors however; many of the issues are internal as well. The issue with Maoists/Naxalites is an internal problem. You need to remember that this is a mass movement. A mass movement has an objective that addresses the concern of the masses not just few people. Even if you remove the above people, the movement would continue. Even if it is assumed that the leaders are not tribal’s, the movement, as a whole, is addressing the concerns of the tribal population.

The fact that Sonia Gandhi Ji , who is heading the congress party and not an Indian by birth, does not mean that the Congress party is not working for the welfare of the Indian people. In fact she seems to be more concerned than some of the India origin politicians.

Arvind, sorry for being blunt, but you are just showing your ignorance repeatedly. Or if I have to be more uncharitable, then you may be one of the "misguided brother" who wants to overthrow the Indian state and is just obfuscating the issues here. I am giving you facts and you are giving me "your" opinions.

1. So you "think" that it is a mass movement and so you go on to define mass movement and its objectives. What mass movement? Who are the people fighting the Maoists in State and non-State forces like Salwa Judum? Are they not from the masses? You are not the one who gets to define the objectives of the Maoists The leadership of Maoists has described it in full detail. And then you are basically throwing conjectures around by saying the movement would continue without these leaders. Mass movements don't hide in jungles, burn trains, indulge in looting. There was a mass movement during Emergency under JP and it truly involved the masses. There have been local mass movements for Uttarakhand, Telangana, etc. Appreciate the difference.

2. What's there to assume in who the leadership is. Who the leaders are is not an unknown. And what concerns of tribals is the movement addressing? Is it tribals' concern to overthrow the State through a protracted war? Let's say I ASSUME that is the tribals' concern- then as an INDIAN, I consider these people to be terrorists and anti-national and it is State's duty to suppress them.

The statements that you have mentioned may be the ambitions of few. However, they are definitely not the aim of the mass movement.

3. This was the killer one. It just shows how you want to overlook solid evidence and believe in your fantasies. What I gave to you was from the CONSTITUTION OF THE MAOISTS, as drafted and followed by them. The guy whose statement I gave here is the official spokesperson for the Maoists. And you just dismiss that as ambition of the "few". Hitler and his "few" cronies decided what actions Germany took. Ditto with Mao and his "few". History teaches us to be wary of the ambitions and actions of the "few" who LEAD, not the fantasies of hundreds who FOLLOW.


What is stopping the government in distributing medicines in the forests? I am sure, the Maoists/tribal would welcome it. Instead, what the government is doing is using schools as military base. It has forced hundreds of villages to be abandoned and forced people to live in camps. The whole objective seems to be to move the people from the forest so that capitalists could open more mines and destroy the forest.

Ask the government to use helicopters to spray food packets, instead of bullets, in the situations of floods etc. and see the result.

I believe, the Maoists were forced to take the path of violence. That was the only path left for them. - Read my earlier posts.

Yes it is simplistic to say then actually address. However, corruption and governance failure is the root cause of the Maoists movement.

4. Again, you are sure that Maoists would welcome humanitarian help. No one would like to risk their life on your conviction, especially given Maoists' track record. You can't distribute medicines when you don't know that the next step you take may blow you up in a landmine. I will agree that governance has to improve. But it just can't improve while Maoists are there.

5. Again your believes on why Maoists are violent are independent of the facts. The Maoist ideology predates any tribal revolt. The "revolutionaries" who swayed or coerced tribals into taking up arms ALWAYS had that agenda. It is there in their constitution. "Protracted people's War", "People's Liberation Army", "Violent armed struggle to overthrow the proletriat" is all part of a planned strategy inspired from Mao's own "revolution" in China. It is not a question of opinion, it is well documented. Maoists proclaim this proudly. They grew up on these ideas. The tribals areas just provided them with the opportunity to practise their ideology.
 
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Although I've sympathy for poor tribal people of the naxalite effected areas but seriously condemn their massacre/violence in the name of struggle. This is high time, govt need to take strong steps to eliminate maoist leaders who're killing people, blowing train/buses every next day. The real naxalite movement now has taken dangerous turn and become serious threat to nation's security and integrity. These maoist leaders supported by Chinese brainwashing poor tribal people and encouraging them to pick weapons just to fulfill their own self-interest.

I know state govts and capitalists have been exploiting these areas and people for long and this is led to naxalism but past can't be changed, therefore everyone need to focus on today. State Govt need to take steps to improve native tribals's living condition and overall development seperately but Its high time to deploy army there to fully eliminate such terrorists (Maoist Leaders) .. Its quite disheartening that these maoists have made fun of CRPF and whole security system, time to teach them serious lesson. Few people justify the violence as the revenge, they say CRPF men raped, killed, interrogated many of tribal ppl .. I doubt if the numbers would be high, agreed that culprit must be punished but how do they justify killing of 100's of soldiers n' civilians too ???

Few people advocate that they are our own people, we can't kill them as Army is trained for complete elimination but I ask them what if they're killing our own people? It's become Cancer .. needed to control it in initial stage which govt failed miserably thus now it's being fatal for the whole nation and spreading into heartland. Therefore before it gets worse and out of control let's cure it with chemotherapy !!!

 
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There are two things. Moasist ideology and the political aim of few parties following the Moasist theory. Than there are some tribals who favour/are with/or prefer Moasis than the Govt(or its official). I know its not mentioend in WIKI. But what about all the committee reports in recent years which says the problem is corruption? What about all the people who have been there and say same things?

Jeet problem is Govt never tried to get rid of this so called problem sincerly. Still they have time but not much.


Arvindc;245145 FOR THE RECORD E N RAMMOHAN We cannot overcome Maoists by sheer force alone [/B said:
Just days ago,E N Rammohan,former director-general of BSF,submitted his report on the Dantewada massacre

The government wants to solve the problem but doesnt want to touch the net of corruption.So,joint operations are resorted to.I am told the spin-offs from sale of tendu leaves in Chhattisgarh and AP reaches right up to Delhi.
Give tribals their due and conduct joint operations to prevent the spread of the problem both should go hand in hand.The thrust should be on eliminating the root cause of the Maoist problem.Enforce land sealing,enact laws that ensure tribals get maximum benefit from forest produce and mining,cut out intermediaries and stamp out corruption.That is the only cure for the problem.If the government can do that,those who joined the Maoists will drop arms and surrender.After all,Maoists are exploiting their grievances and using them to achieve their ultimate goal capture State power.

What then is the root cause of the problem

Its not just bad governance but exploitation by upper castes who are big landowners in most states.Caste is a very important cause that has allowed the Maoists to strike roots and spread.In most places in India,four-fifths of the people work for just one-fifth of the population.In AP,for instance,upper caste landlords have been exploiting the masses for ages.Especially in Telangana and Srikakulam,this is most evident.There is a practice in these areas where a man had to offer his bride to the landlord first.There are numerous ballads that lament,There is no hope for our women.



Ignorace is bliss sometime :)
 
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There are two things. Moasist ideology and the political aim of few parties following the Moasist theory. Than there are some tribals who favour/are with/or prefer Moasis than the Govt(or its official). I know its not mentioend in WIKI. But what about all the committee reports in recent years which says the problem is corruption? What about all the people who have been there and say same things?

Jeet problem is Govt never tried to get rid of this so called problem sincerly. Still they have time but not much.




Ignorace is bliss sometime :)

There are two things. Moasist ideology and the political aim of few parties following the Moasist theory. Than there are some tribals who favour/are with/or prefer Moasis than the Govt(or its official). I know its not mentioend in WIKI. But what about all the committee reports in recent years which says the problem is corruption? What about all the people who have been there and say same things?

Jeet problem is Govt never tried to get rid of this so called problem sincerly. Still they have time but not much.




Ignorace is bliss sometime :)

But , Vipin, It is a bad business too.

Kapil, your pro-government views/opinions/facts/arguments are good but at the same time approach to handle the issue is evident and it is not conspiracy theory that government willingly didnt solve this issue. Since 1967 Govt. waited it to become an issue to tag it is internal security threat and use it in various election campaigns alike Bush-Blair Afghanistan-Iraq War agenda.

On massacare incident Lungiwalla offered the resignation, tomorrow after an unfortunate incident of same nature PM offers it, how would you rate these steps?

Moral, Strong, commendable Or Weak, indecisive and clueless?

Further it is important to consider the confidence of paramilitary involved. How such stands effects their self-esteem, self confidence? We hardly hear about it.
 
Samar thats the whole problem Its not a bad business for some. Its a very lucrative business ! It bad only for the country :)
 
Kapil, your pro-government views/opinions/facts/arguments are good but at the same time approach to handle the issue is evident and it is not conspiracy theory that government willingly didnt solve this issue. Since 1967 Govt. waited it to become an issue to tag it is internal security threat and use it in various election campaigns alike Bush-Blair Afghanistan-Iraq War agenda.

On massacare incident Lungiwalla offered the resignation, tomorrow after an unfortunate incident of same nature PM offers it, how would you rate these steps?

Moral, Strong, commendable Or Weak, indecisive and clueless?

Further it is important to consider the confidence of paramilitary involved. How such stands effects their self-esteem, self confidence? We hardly hear about it.

I am not pro-government on this at all. For long govts. (all of them, state and central) have done nothing to solve the issues, neither through force nor through development. I support Chidambram as he first acknowledged the Maoist threat as the gravest internal security danger (see contrast with immediate predecessor, Shivraj Patil). Secondly, he articulated a clear and good strategy of Clear-Build and Hold. Now it is a pity he doesn't have the full support of the govt. or the high command.

But yes, overall the situation is bad because of failure of governance, both on the inability to maintain law & order as well as not fulfilling the aspirations of disaffected people. In some cases, some govts. and politicians even complicitly allied with the Maoists. However if the government has been bad doesn't mean Maoists have been good. That is the problem with bleeding heart liberals. Their de-facto anti-establishment stand becomes support for Maoists. They start mixing facts and fictions, calling tribals and Maoists as the same thing (even though there are tribals leading the govts, in the govt. and non-govt. forces fighting the Maoists), justifying violence by Maoists as a reaction to govt. excesses and citing some real and several imaginary tales to prove their point. They don't want to see Maoists' agenda, their constitution, their history, their strategy and their excessively violent actions. For them, anyone who fights the govt. is good. It is this blatantly wrong romanticisation of Maoist beasts that I have an issue with. Forget Mao, can't these people look at Nepal? It started there too with some "disaffected groups". The Maoists kept making small gains and then negotiating ceasefires or concessions from the govt. untill they captured Kathmandu. Maybe, these bleeding heart liberals need a midnight knock on their doors to appreciate the beast in front of us.

Make reforms in governance by all means. But you need to get rid of Maoists before you can start governing.

People say how shameful a minister is when he doesn't offer resignation. If he offers, then he is considered as weak. I don't care about the politics of this. He is the best we have had till now. If there is someone better, then get him to do the job.
 
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Kapil, Your post prevails sense, appreciate it !

I am not pro-government on this at all. For long govts. (all of them, state and central) have done nothing to solve the issues, neither through force nor through development. I support Chidambram as he first acknowledged the Maoist threat as the gravest internal security danger (see contrast with immediate predecessor, Shivraj Patil). Secondly, he articulated a clear and good strategy of Clear-Build and Hold. Now it is a pity he doesn't have the full support of the govt. or the high command.

But yes, overall the situation is bad because of failure of governance, both on the inability to maintain law & order as well as not fulfilling the aspirations of disaffected people. In some cases, some govts. and politicians even complicitly allied with the Maoists. However if the government has been bad doesn't mean Maoists have been good. That is the problem with bleeding heart liberals. Their de-facto anti-establishment stand becomes support for Maoists. They start mixing facts and fictions, calling tribals and Maoists as the same thing (even though there are tribals leading the govts, in the govt. and non-govt. forces fighting the Maoists), justifying violence by Maoists as a reaction to govt. excesses and citing some real and several imaginary tales to prove their point. They don't want to see Maoists' agenda, their constitution, their history, their strategy and their excessively violent actions. For them, anyone who fights the govt. is good. It is this blatantly wrong romanticisation of Maoist beasts that I have an issue with. Forget Mao, can't these people look at Nepal? It started there too with some "disaffected groups". The Maoists kept making small gains and then negotiating ceasefires or concessions from the govt. untill they captured Kathmandu. Maybe, these bleeding heart liberals need a midnight knock on their doors to appreciate the beast in front of us.

Make reforms in governance by all means. But you need to get rid of Maoists before you can start governing.

People say how shameful a minister is when he doesn't offer resignation. If he offers, then he is considered as weak. I don't care about the politics of this. He is the best we have had till now. If there is someone better, then get him to do the job.
 
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