C for Congress, C for Corruption, C for Communalism and C for Crime

malikdeepak1 said:
No relief for common man. This 1 lakh limit under 80C is running since 2000/2001
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Firstly, let me congratulate you for bringing in a valid and sensible viewpoint and while I agree with most of what you said, I wouldnt agree at this bit.

Who is a common man, from your argument it is the 3% lot that files income tax. India has just 35 million taxpayers — about 3 percent of the population. Only 1.5 million of them declare annual earnings of more than a million rupees ($18,500). Fewer still (400,000) pay tax on earnings of over 2 million rupees ($37,000).

Common people beyond that 3% have actually got benefits from the shower of increase in spendings on various other schemes like MNREGA, Nirbhaya fund, PM Road Yojna etc etc. While some might argue that it will increase corruption n blah blah, I see it as increased benefit to people.

Further, I applaud his step to tax the riches, though the same benefit is diluted by corporate taxes but still an applaudable step. I would have wanted to see him taxing some rich farmers as well who earn more than some of the senior salaried folks to sanitize the taxation lot a bit more.

And to your last point, I think you missed it, he announced an amnesty scheme for service tax defaulters in an effort to entice a large number of assesses to tax fold and simultaneously boost tax collections for the exchequer. Although I am against such amnesties, this encourages people more to evade taxes to wait for a time when govt gives up.
 
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Your post was more on bashing congress rather than pointing out budget fallacies. IMHO, leakage in schemes is a different topic. Budget is all about adjusting finances by spending and cutting. And ofcourse for right reassons. Leakage in schemes could be dealt by addressing loopholes. Yes there are some key things missing from this budget. Health spend has not increased substantially. Spending on education is still very less. These are key points. There may be many like these.

AbhikRana said:
I guessed it from your initial reply to my post that you were NOT interested in actually having any discussion on my observation on the corruption by this govt. in the name of budget and budgetary allocations. Hence, I wanted you to come out with your viewpoint before I elaborated any further.

Well, you have left nothing further to be discussed with you when you call the opinion of others as RANT.

And of course, if it really makes you happy, let me say just for the sake of saying that 'it was a GREAT budget'.
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desijat said:
Firstly, let me congratulate you for bringing in a valid and sensible viewpoint and while I agree with most of what you said, I wouldnt agree at this bit.

Who is a common man, from your argument it is the 3% lot that files income tax. India has just 35 million taxpayers — about 3 percent of the population. Only 1.5 million of them declare annual earnings of more than a million rupees ($18,500). Fewer still (400,000) pay tax on earnings of over 2 million rupees ($37,000).

Common people beyond that 3% have actually got benefits from the shower of increase in spendings on various other schemes like MNREGA, Nirbhaya fund, PM Road Yojna etc etc. While some might argue that it will increase corruption n blah blah, I see it as increased benefit to people.

Further, I applaud his step to tax the riches, though the same benefit is diluted by corporate taxes but still an applaudable step. I would have wanted to see him taxing some rich farmers as well who earn more than some of the senior salaried folks to sanitize the taxation lot a bit more.

And to your last point, I think you missed it, he announced an amnesty scheme for service tax defaulters in an effort to entice a large number of assesses to tax fold and simultaneously boost tax collections for the exchequer. Although I am against such amnesties, this encourages people more to evade taxes to wait for a time when govt gives up.
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Well I am not into numbers. I never like these numbers as they always mislead. However, by common man I meant the tax paying group who forms majority of almost correct tax payments. Those who are employed in private companies(say IT) and govt sector cannot evade tax on their salary and hence could have been provided some benefit under 80C. When a limit of 1 lakh was decided, I used to get 1kg potato in 5Rs. Now I get same 1kg potato for 24Rs. Even though you may say that my salary also has increased, but inflation is outclassing my salary in recent few years. Some relief to middle class could have been a good measure. In return govt would have got more money from people as investments which they could have utilized for further development. Infact Under 80C, people act as lenders to institutions who in turn after specified period pay the amount back with some interest. It would have been good for both people and govt.

MNREGA etc are schemes with good intentions but worst implementation. System reforms are must. I dont want to divulge into such things here.

I mentioned taxing the super rich is not the "solution" and didnt say it is incorrect. Those who can afford to pay more taxes should do that. But along with that Chidu could have done better by bringing in some policy so that tax evasions can be caught and penalized heavily. property dealers, for instance, do transactions in cash and tehsildar takes certain amount to do the registry at circle rates. The remaining amount goes as black money and no tax is paid on that. Things like this should be curbed.

Tax on farmer is highly subjective. Take instance of this year only. The weather is playing hide and seek with farmers and the rains have almost destroyed half of the wheat crop in and around Haryana. So plainly going by tax rates, taxing farmers is quite difficult. (Some type of farming is already under tax, like horticulture).

Tax evasion is inevitable in India in current scenarios. Balance sheets of companies, firms are highly diluted to save taxes. Thats where FM missed the trick. He should have announced some policies which should act as deterrent to tax evaders.

Anyways, budget was okiesh considering the growth scenarios we are aiming at. However better could have always been done.
 
The ABC of a budget starts with Accountability and Budgetary Control which is totally lacking in our so-called budgets.

The country is facing amongst the highest fiscal deficits it has so far. Why? Is it just because of recession? Is it just because the media raised the corruption issue which scared off fresh investments? IS IT JUST NOT CORRUPTION?

This corrupt party has for almost 60 years year after year made budgetary allocations for the SC, ST, women, children, other weaker sections and STILL the weaker sections are weak. There has been no introspection as to why the situation still remains bleak despite thousands and lakhs of crores of rupees (national wealth) having been already spent. Budget and budgetary allocations are like numerous crores flowing down the drain on cleaning the rivers Ganga and Yamuna and the rivers becoming MORE dirty than they were before those crores of rupees being spent. Even the charismatic Rajivji had conceded the fact that 15 paise out of a budgeted rupee reaches the common man. Yet, things remain the same. There have been some measures like the food stamp schemes for direct cash transfers, but with the exemplary (in the negative sense) track record of this party, even there they would find many loopholes to siphon off public money. An example is the ghost employees of the MCD who were regularly being paid salaries.

Any progressive society does not aim for just (ONLY) high figures of GDP growth (on papers). It FIRST ensures that the following basic needs (3+2) of the society are met before embarking on the higher goals:

1. Roti (Food for all): Almost everyone including the middle class is unfed or underfed. According to UN and Govt. reports one in every three children in India are malnourished. The picture for adults is not very different. And then the economist MAUN Mohan ji MOST UNFORTUNATELY says that food prices are rising because Indians have started eating more. According to him they should remain malnourished to keep prices under check thereby demeaning Indians and Indian sensitivities.

2. Kapda (Clothes): Well, so far this cash hungry govt. has not laid its eyes on the clothes of Indians, but that day is not far. Moreover, there are plenty of Indians in far off places like Odisha (Orissa) where people find it hard to cover their bodies.

3. Makaan (Shelter): We all know the state of affairs in this country as far as arranging a roof over the head is concerned. With govt. encouraging black money (Wadhra's and others) into real estate, a roof is practically out of reach of common man.

4. Education: We all know the standard of education in govt. schools and the pvt. schools cost a moolah. The other day there was an article in TOI according to which there are people who have spent anything between Rs. 50,000 to Rs. One Lac JUST on admission forms for nursery admissions of their children.

5. Healthcare: Again we know the situation prevailing in govt. hospitals. They seem more like veterinary hospitals for the cattle - no beds, no medicines, no machines, no doctors and of course no SANITATION.

As far as the above 5 basic needs are concerned the Congress govts over almost 60 years since independence have failed MISERABLY and hence, the BUDGET is nothing more than an exercise in futility. They can keep blabbering on all those figures of GDP growth,etc, etc.

Just yesterday, prices of two things increased - Diesel and parking in Delhi (Rs. 50 for 3 hours). A day before price of petrol was increased. Recently, one of the citizens on TV was venting his ire against the corrupt current dispensation by saying: "Is there going to be any activity that this govt. would not tax??" Like a bandit, they place their gun on the head of the common man and force him to cough up more and more money thereby literally squeezing the last penny out of his pocket.


P.S. I might have hurt the sentiments of die hard Congressmen and women who may please excuse and ignore this post (my misdemeanor).


malikdeepak1 said:
Well I am not into numbers. I never like these numbers as they always mislead. However, by common man I meant the tax paying group who forms majority of almost correct tax payments. Those who are employed in private companies(say IT) and govt sector cannot evade tax on their salary and hence could have been provided some benefit under 80C. When a limit of 1 lakh was decided, I used to get 1kg potato in 5Rs. Now I get same 1kg potato for 24Rs. Even though you may say that my salary also has increased, but inflation is outclassing my salary in recent few years. Some relief to middle class could have been a good measure. In return govt would have got more money from people as investments which they could have utilized for further development. Infact Under 80C, people act as lenders to institutions who in turn after specified period pay the amount back with some interest. It would have been good for both people and govt.

MNREGA etc are schemes with good intentions but worst implementation. System reforms are must. I dont want to divulge into such things here.

I mentioned taxing the super rich is not the "solution" and didnt say it is incorrect. Those who can afford to pay more taxes should do that. But along with that Chidu could have done better by bringing in some policy so that tax evasions can be caught and penalized heavily. property dealers, for instance, do transactions in cash and tehsildar takes certain amount to do the registry at circle rates. The remaining amount goes as black money and no tax is paid on that. Things like this should be curbed.

Tax on farmer is highly subjective. Take instance of this year only. The weather is playing hide and seek with farmers and the rains have almost destroyed half of the wheat crop in and around Haryana. So plainly going by tax rates, taxing farmers is quite difficult. (Some type of farming is already under tax, like horticulture).

Tax evasion is inevitable in India in current scenarios. Balance sheets of companies, firms are highly diluted to save taxes. Thats where FM missed the trick. He should have announced some policies which should act as deterrent to tax evaders.

Anyways, budget was okiesh considering the growth scenarios we are aiming at. However better could have always been done.
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Without high GDP, country cannot generate enough employment for people. High GDP is must if India wants to remove poverty and unemployment.

Human Development Index can be looked at the time. But Government can't spend money on welfares programmes unless and until government has enough tax collection and employment generation.

Therefore, High GDP is must and a prerequisite for overall development!



AbhikRana said:
Any progressive society does not aim for just (ONLY) high figures of GDP growth (on papers). It FIRST ensures that the following basic needs (3+2) of the society are met before embarking on the higher goals:
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GDP growth is an essential requirement if any nation is to progress, which is not disputable and a non-contestable fact. However, it should not be a case of 'either/or' where development means malnourishment, lack of housing, almost negligible provisions for education and healthcare. These are the very basic needs which can be and should be met alongwith growth and economic development. The very model of development through starvation (malnourishment) of people, ignoring housing, education and healthcare is ab initio flawed.

Year after year, the govt. has spent countless crores on these sectors. Where is the result? Where is the accountability? What is the job of FM? Just hand out the moolah? What about the effectiveness and efficiency of spending of the money allocated? How seriously are CAG reports taken? Why is the govt. not giving permission/intervening in giving permission to CAG to audit RIL accounts which has bagged govt. tenders? Is it not a question of national wealth being looted?

Over ages, for economic classification and other (including ulterior) reasons the successive govts. (starting with the Congress party for almost 60 years) have divided the society into classes (with anyone earning above Rs. 31/day not being poor), castes, minority/majority, male/female, etc, etc. The aim of any progressive and honest govt. is to gradually remove these differences/gaps. Instead, the Congress govt. has INTENTIONALLY widened these gaps thereby ensuring that there is no inclusive development.

Since independence, how much has been spent on the upliftment of the SC, ST, women, etc. etc.????? Why are they still considered the weaker section despite it being over six decades since independence and countless sums of money spent?????

In the name of social justice and upliftment, are these countless Jawahar, Indira and Rajiv schemes and the accompanying humongous budgetary allocations delivering end results?

Be it telecom or the highways, investors are shying away from making investments because these departments are dens of corruption with the investors being unsure of how much and how many times more they will have to grease the palms of the TOP COMMISSION AGENTS (including ministers).

How is a women's bank going to benefit women when there already are pvt. and public sector banks employing a sizeable chunk of women? What benefit is going to come out of women being allowed to bring Rs. 1 lac worth of gold from outside? These are all gimmicks which unfortunately people lap up without applying their minds. Why to have a special Rs. 1000 crore as Nirbhaya fund instead of modernising and sensitizing the police machinery across the length and breadth of the country? All gimmicks.

If petroleum products are actually market controlled, why and how are petrol prices put on hold before elections and rise after the elections? If the prices have to be determined by the market, why is the govt. interfering with 100 percent more taxes? Let the prices be totally market driven.

If these are tough times facing the nation, why do the 'Laat sahibs' (ministers and babus) stay in palatial bungalows spread over acres of land with an army of domestic and personal helpers and luxury cars at their disposal? Are the austerity measures only for the common man?

There are so many things which make this budget highly disappointing like almost all the previous ones, but I am sure the space on JL would run out.

vicky84 said:
Without high GDP, country cannot generate enough employment for people. High GDP is must if India wants to remove poverty and unemployment.

Human Development Index can be looked at the time. But Government can't spend money on welfares programmes unless and until government has enough tax collection and employment generation.

Therefore, High GDP is must and a prerequisite for overall development!
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The issues you raised are a matter of concern but budget has very least to do with them!

As I said earlier, budget is more about adjusting finances.

Also on the issues raised by you, I agree that no government is serious about them.Congress has done some good things like getting rid of subsidies(For example diesel subsidies). Fixing the problem of leakage in schemes etc. Also some reforms have been made like GST etc to simplify complex tax system. FDI is also a good move. But sadly parties like BJP and Left are show stopper in our country. Right-Wing BJP(Bhagwa Janta Party) is more concerned about playing politics on hindutva, ram mandir etc. And least about important issues in the country!


Also on budget, the Central government budget deficit increased when BJP was in power. So what you can do!

Khayi dono taraf hai!



AbhikRana said:
There are so many things which make this budget highly disappointing like almost all the previous ones, but I am sure the space on JL would run out.
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I am repeating for the sake of jogging your memory what I had written earlier.

Budget is more than just allocation of money to the various ministries/departments. It involves ACCOUNTABILITY for the money given. This is the message that I wanted to bring about from my very initial post. Where is the accountability?????? This is not their personal money that they are handing out. This is the money of the country - for God's sake.

Which subsidies are we talking about? The govt. says no subsidy and that the prices of every commodity should be totally market driven. If the prices are totally market driven where is the scope for taxes?? Taxes and market prices (no subsidy) make it a double whammy for the consumers - the wrath of market fluctuations and the burden of taxes. The govt. cannot have the cake and eat it too if it plays by the rules of the game (of no subsidy).

The opposition including BJP is doing a good job of checks and balances. They have not done anything which an opposition party is not supposed to do. In fact it is the Congress which has done FDI retail through back door by going back on its promise of taking a decision only after political consensus is reached. We all know the story of CBI (Congress Bureau of Investigation) blackmailing, so I will not go into the details.

As far as BJP talking of Ram Mandir is concerned, I do not understand what has it got to do with the budget or the economy of the country.

It would be very foolish of me or anyone else to talk of BJP's economic policy now when the Congress is in power for the past 9 years (and for almost 60 years since independence) and has taken the country to this hopeless situation of the highest ever fiscal deficit. With this fiscal deficit, do they need to undertake wasteful and humongous allocations on so many Indira, Jawahar and Rajiv schemes which have not yielded results and for which there is NO ACCOUNTABILTIY???


vicky84 said:
The issues you raised are a matter of concern but budget has very least to do with them!

As I said earlier, budget is more about adjusting finances.

Also on the issues raised by you, I agree that no government is serious about them.Congress has done some good things like getting rid of subsidies(For example diesel subsidies). Fixing the problem of leakage in schemes etc. Also some reforms have been made like GST etc to simplify complex tax system. FDI is also a good move. But sadly parties like BJP and Left are show stopper in our country. Right-Wing BJP(Bhagwa Janta Party) is more concerned about playing politics on hindutva, ram mandir etc. And least about important issues in the country!


Also on budget, the Central government budget deficit increased when BJP was in power. So what you can do!

Khayi dono taraf hai!
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I suggest you to read some economics and comment! Don't write here for a sake of writing.

AbhikRana said:
Which subsidies are we talking about? The govt. says no subsidy and that the prices of every commodity should be totally market driven. If the prices are totally market driven where is the scope for taxes?? Taxes and market prices (no subsidy) make it a double whammy for the consumers - the wrath of market fluctuations and the burden of taxes. The govt. cannot have the cake and eat it too if it plays by the rules of the game (of no subsidy).
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vicky84 said:
haha

BJP is doing good job by blocking roads and holding protest around the country (to disrupt people lives and causing loss to the country) on good moves like FDI etc.
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They are just your typical opposition. Oppose for the sake of opposing.

They first initiated the moves to align India with a US nuclear deal, but then vociferously opposed it. Typical...
They were the ones to first talk about expanding FDI into various sectors, disinvestment, but then opposed FDI in retail. Typical....
The tried to align with Kejriwal and Anna's lokpal movement, but Modi has repeatedly refused to implement the Lokpal bill and has instead appointed a Lokpal himself. Typical...

Can people still say that BJP acts in any different way than Congress?
 
swaich said:
They are just your typical opposition. Oppose for the sake of opposing.

They first initiated the moves to align India with a US nuclear deal, but then vociferously opposed it. Typical...
They were the ones to first talk about expanding FDI into various sectors, disinvestment, but then opposed FDI in retail. Typical....
The tried to align with Kejriwal and Anna's lokpal movement, but Modi has repeatedly refused to implement the Lokpal bill and has instead appointed a Lokpal himself. Typical...

Can people still say that BJP acts in any different way than Congress?
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Yeah mate. Typical opposition and hypocrite!

They have a history of promoting deadly conspirational theories!

Not a good opposition at all. Instead of raising genuine issues, party goes for a petty politics! All political gimmicks nothing else. Hopeless opposition.
 
I had thought some sanity had prevailed upon you and you seriously wanted to discuss.

Though I do not need to discuss my qualifications with you, they would be much more than you can imagine and you yourself can ever aspire to have.

People like you by getting into personal comments here play an important role in not just disrupting any serious discussion but killing the discussion.

You want to criticize the BJP and the other opposition parties when it is the Congress which in power for over the past 9 years and which has brought the country to a sorry state of affairs (highest fiscal deficit) through their Corruption. Now diehard supporters of the SICKULAR congress will ask for the proof of Commonwealth, 2G, Coal-gate, Chopper scam, etc, etc. The list is endless but then it is okay as per people like to allow them to loot the country after all the fair-skinned first family of which people like you are loyalists have a divine right to rule the lowly subjects that you loyalists are. Your only grudge is that the opposition including the BJP should not oppose but become partners in the crime (CORRUPTION)!

You used the word bhagwa (Saffron) as an abuse. If you are so ashamed of being a Hindu, you may better save yourself this shame and ignominy and renounce the Shameful Hindu faith and become a Muslim who according to you and the corrupt, criminal and communal congress are backwards and do something for their upliftment.

P.S. You are free to criticize the BJP and Sangh Parivar if you want to by starting a new thread and I promise that I would not even look at that thread.


vicky84 said:
I suggest you to read some economics and comment! Don't write here for a sake of writing.
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Mate I think you have gone personal here!

I can't discuss with you anymore.

Take care!

AbhikRana said:
I had thought some sanity had prevailed upon you and you seriously wanted to discuss.

Though I do not need to discuss my qualifications with you, they would be much more than you can imagine and you yourself can ever aspire to have.

People like you by getting into personal comments here play an important role in not just disrupting any serious discussion but killing the discussion.

.
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AbhikRana said:
People like you by getting into personal comments here play an important role in not just disrupting any serious discussion but killing the discussion.

P.S. You are free to criticize the BJP and Sangh Parivar if you want to by starting a new thread and I promise that I would not even look at that thread.
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Abhik,

I am not sure of your educational qualification so I wont even comment on that plus it is too rude to even get on that topic, but your English is quite flawless and impeccable and I can safely assume you know the meaning of the word 'discussion'. Discussion is not to speak with only those people who agree with you always.

If you post something against one party, and you want people to believe you then you must talk of alternatives as well. I think Vicky did a fair job only by comparing whom you call a thief and the alternatives to those bunch or corrupted politicians. I think Vicky has said it often in his posts that his stance on Congress is not positive either, but I believe you are more offended that his take on BJP than his criticism of Congress?

Let all assume that we all agree with you, Congress is corrupt, communal and criminal now what? Do we leave it at that only or do we go ahead and discuss of alternatives too?
 
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