bhai goyat orkut pe ja k koi bhi non jat vote kar sake s........to bhai ye figures sahi na hain........ar bhai j reservation mil ja to k chotte ho jaawenge......we r royals by birth.......
Do we Jat really need Reservation ?
- Thread starter rajivsp
- Start date
Yahaan waale poll main bhi 47.3% against hain (not that it says anything in favor or against the argument)
ravichaudhary
New member
A good observation
You might also go a little further, and look into the profiles of those voting- No.
Ravi Chaudhary
Please share your analysis.
(As I implied earlier, I don't base my opinion on polls. Nevertheless it is heartening to see that almost half have said no).
A
anilsinghd
Guest
Jit Bhai , Let's start it over again
I can understand your point totally but the point in question ( and I guess I am reading Samar correctly ) is of "CHOICE".
What you are asking and the asnwer to all your questions is NO but that is not our choice. That in some sense is a "forced" choice.
!Let me ask the same question but in a different way : There are two buses , one driven by driver A , one by driver B. Driver A is a reputed driver , driver B is a "seekhdad" like me
, which one will you board if you have a choice ? !
A
anilsinghd
Guest
Anil ,sorry to have quoted you.
My response is in general to all the people who are favoring Reservation.
I might be technical on this , but then there are no free arbitrages in life.
Can you let us know where from this "seemingly free" added advantage coming up ?
Phewww.... my favo law of averages , + and - existing side by side.
@ Dev : Ohh come on , me concluding this one ? It is a distant dream.
There will never be conclusions as there are totally different perspectives existing over here!
Jeetu bhai, even I can claim that I have discussed this topic at length here at JL only and don't find anything new in the pro-arguments. Still, I try and answer a point that has been raised, at the cost of repeating myself, as I believe that is the right way to debate. Anyways, I have read your arguments and I appreciate your logic, though I don't agree with it. You are one of the few pro-reservation people who have bothered to come up with arguments rather than indulging in hubris like "we are doing it for poor villagers, you people sitting in ACs know jack sh*t", etc. etc. Nevertheless, I still haven't seen anyone giving a solid argument against the most fundamental question- "If we are seeking reservations for poor villagers, what purpose would they solve when those guys don't have the basic resources to reach the point where reservations give benefits. And then if all benefits are going to be usurped by those relatively well off, then what's the point?". Yes, we can still get it just because others are getting it. We can feel good about seeing a few more of our people in govt. jobs. But it is not going to lead to any development of the community.
On the contrary, my view is that reservations would actually harm us. So even if the current system stays, I don't want Jats to get it. I have given detailed arguments on this earlier. But in brief, I believe that future of India is not in govt. jobs, but in private enterprise. I don't want the community to fight over the spoils of a small and rotting cake, when there are so many opportunities in private sector, business, sports, etc. I think this so called aandolan has anyways been on for 15 years or so. I know quite a few people who spent their youth being unemployed, waiting for the reservations to bail them out. We are at a danger of becoming like communists always looking for a revolution that would never come. Isn't it much better to focus on steps that should have no opposition and are much more likely to lead to development- like quality education, vocational training, sports facilities, etc. Finally, reservations are also harmful because of reverse discrimnation in the system. You don't see many people from reserved categories excelling in any field as the system discriminates against them and they also develop an inferiority complex. I think we are much better than fighting to become a class of govt. employees.
Anil- are you being sarcastic here? Asking because in the link that Jitendra Hooda posted, you are opposing reservations.
A
anilsinghd
Guest
Kapil you might work on getting AAA ratings of US changed or even convince people that Home prices can never go down but convincing people on reservation issue is more difficult.
I do appreciate the concerns of those who support reservation becasue from the point they are seeing things , they are for sure seeing benefits.
The same applies equally well to you becasue you see things from the perspective of being actually there ( in the top ranks of IIT , PG's education etc.).
I do appreciate the concerns of those who support reservation becasue from the point they are seeing things , they are for sure seeing benefits.
The same applies equally well to you becasue you see things from the perspective of being actually there ( in the top ranks of IIT , PG's education etc.).
sandeepsangwan8
New member
bhaio ek baat likata hun, don't mind
mere hisab jaat apne hathon se niche rah gaya
sab kahate hain reservation chahiye par kya phayda hoga reservation se
apne jaat bhai kaam kar k raji konya. nyu kahay karan ak ya nokri main karunga.jaat to maar diya main nah. nyu bolya dekh jaat k thaat.sab naih bera sai kise sain jaat k thaat. saari saal maati main bharaya rah sai na nahan ka bera na khan ka bera na son ka. bhains or khet tai e fursat konya kit thaat karaga
mere hisab jaat apne hathon se niche rah gaya
sab kahate hain reservation chahiye par kya phayda hoga reservation se
apne jaat bhai kaam kar k raji konya. nyu kahay karan ak ya nokri main karunga.jaat to maar diya main nah. nyu bolya dekh jaat k thaat.sab naih bera sai kise sain jaat k thaat. saari saal maati main bharaya rah sai na nahan ka bera na khan ka bera na son ka. bhains or khet tai e fursat konya kit thaat karaga
Rakesh Sangwan ji
I wrote my earlier post after getting familiar with the Gurnam Singh Commission Report.
Could jats have claimed backwardness on any other basis but economic?
Please correct me if I am wrong. Three main points cited to the commission
by our jat deputation for economic backwardness are 1) Average Land Holding of 2.5 acres, 2) Heavy debt and 3) Minimal representation in higher services like IAS. These points are applicable to whom?
You know the report much better than me, and also have been passionately involved in this movement. I am sure you would be able to advise - How are we going to ensure that the benefits reach the people who are being used to first- build a case in favor, and then- win this battle?
Or is it like- EK baar reservation mil toh jaye, phir sochenge/ dekhenge?
Don't you think Kapil's replies to my questions were apt? I would really appreciate if you could direct me to other posts where these questions have been addressed.
Regards,
Anju
I wrote my earlier post after getting familiar with the Gurnam Singh Commission Report.
Could jats have claimed backwardness on any other basis but economic?
Please correct me if I am wrong. Three main points cited to the commission
by our jat deputation for economic backwardness are 1) Average Land Holding of 2.5 acres, 2) Heavy debt and 3) Minimal representation in higher services like IAS. These points are applicable to whom?
You know the report much better than me, and also have been passionately involved in this movement. I am sure you would be able to advise - How are we going to ensure that the benefits reach the people who are being used to first- build a case in favor, and then- win this battle?
Or is it like- EK baar reservation mil toh jaye, phir sochenge/ dekhenge?
Don't you think Kapil's replies to my questions were apt? I would really appreciate if you could direct me to other posts where these questions have been addressed.
Regards,
Anju
S
snandal1
Guest
is aandolan ki shakti pradan karne me sahyog aise de sakte hai ki jaise hi koi jaat, khaskar padha likha is jatland pe reservation ko oppose kare, uske sir pe joote maro aur usse bolo k o padhe likhe jat, pehle chauthi paas karke aa, primary skul me jaake padh, ek do teen char seekh ke aa, baaki teri ssari degree bekar hai. jaise kisi mantri ko pad aur gopneyata (office n secreacy) ki shapath di jaati hai, aise is jatland pe sabko reservation ke baare me shapath di jaani chahie.
bhai jeeyenge, do chaar, dal roti milengi, to likhenge padhenge jatland pe aur jo bhai mar hi jayenge, jaise ki hajaron saal se jat apni hi overintellectual maut mar rahe hai delhi ke charo taraf........................
bhai jo is jatland pe reservation ke bare me overintelligent theory de rahe hai, unko joota dikhaya jaye. aur joote ka sign jatland pe nahi hai to mai bana deta hu. uske baad unki koi bhi post padhi jaaye samjhi jaaye.
elllle bhai, ho gaya solution.
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There are lot success stories, perhaps not many know that there are Jats who did MBA from Harvard in 1960s that too from Rajasthan where reservation is demanded. But, these success stories cannot efface the centuries old humiliation inflicted on the Jats of Rajsthan by feudal and allied castes(sorry for not naming these). The fact is that Haryana-Punjab and western UP had been under direct British rule after 1857 and there feudal lords were weakened ever since the time of Aurangzeb and the successive JAt revolts had thrown off the oppressive regime to quite some extent. The situation was not very fortunate in Rajasthan. The oppression existed as long as 1940s when Kisan Andolan was at it heights. The reservation only serves a modest reclaim of the self-respect.
Politically it is very strategic as most of the people only see reservation in terms of jobs, what about Pancvhayats? The villages in Rajasthan where the OBC seats had been mainpulated to MLA and MP levels are now much better represented with the JATS being given their legitmate share of representation in Panchayats through these reservations.
Another last thing, reservation as demanded by Jats is the only of the kind which has been challenged by rest of the castes before the OBC commission this only tells the jeaslousy factor that has get into it. And it proves the fact the hitherto the disadvantaged status of Jats was being relished by other communites in the politics of Rasjathan.
The end word is that Jats have to innovators and pioneers that the summary of existence of being a JAT.
Politically it is very strategic as most of the people only see reservation in terms of jobs, what about Pancvhayats? The villages in Rajasthan where the OBC seats had been mainpulated to MLA and MP levels are now much better represented with the JATS being given their legitmate share of representation in Panchayats through these reservations.
Another last thing, reservation as demanded by Jats is the only of the kind which has been challenged by rest of the castes before the OBC commission this only tells the jeaslousy factor that has get into it. And it proves the fact the hitherto the disadvantaged status of Jats was being relished by other communites in the politics of Rasjathan.
The end word is that Jats have to innovators and pioneers that the summary of existence of being a JAT.
navdeepbudhwar
New member
jaat ne maara jaat ko juuta!!!!!
bhai ye to srasr galat hai.........agar JL pe koi aisa hai jo reservation ko oppose karta hai ,,to use samjhana chahiye ke bhai ye reservation kitni jaroori hai.......
is se hamara kitna fayda ho sakta hai.....aur hamare bachoo ko kitni prevelage mil sakti hai...........
parr bhai ye juuta marne ya dikhane wali baat galat hai......
aacha to ab jaat hi jaat ko juuta maarne laga....????
bhai bss yahi to ham lacking hai.......hamari agressive nature hamare bhaiyo ko haani pauchati hai........
yee JL bana hai ke saare jaat bhai mil jul kar ,shanti se kisi cheez ko discuss kar sake ....
prr yahan JL pe agar juuta bajne lagege to kya fayda.......
is se to ekta banegi nai aur bigad jaegi.....
bhai ye to srasr galat hai.........agar JL pe koi aisa hai jo reservation ko oppose karta hai ,,to use samjhana chahiye ke bhai ye reservation kitni jaroori hai.......
is se hamara kitna fayda ho sakta hai.....aur hamare bachoo ko kitni prevelage mil sakti hai...........
parr bhai ye juuta marne ya dikhane wali baat galat hai......
aacha to ab jaat hi jaat ko juuta maarne laga....????
bhai bss yahi to ham lacking hai.......hamari agressive nature hamare bhaiyo ko haani pauchati hai........
yee JL bana hai ke saare jaat bhai mil jul kar ,shanti se kisi cheez ko discuss kar sake ....
prr yahan JL pe agar juuta bajne lagege to kya fayda.......
is se to ekta banegi nai aur bigad jaegi.....
The Poll verdict
The poll actually represents the divide between the Jats who have reservation and those who dont have. A simple message that if you do the survey of the JATLAND members, the maximum would be from Haryana and UP and few from Delhi in terms of their origin, whereever they respond from. The JATS from Rasjathan strongly favour reservation for the reasons of their own, but strange fact is that it is not a kind of identity politics which would exclude some other castes or point out at particular sections of society.
The reservation for the JATS has been best way to eliminate the reservation as the law of majority prevails. The maximum competition is among the Jat kids and even the merit of OBC is few nothces higher than the general in RPSC exams. Therefore, reservation should be seen not as previlege but as prerogative to get included into the equals among others, those hitherto wished Jats to be outcasts.
The poll actually represents the divide between the Jats who have reservation and those who dont have. A simple message that if you do the survey of the JATLAND members, the maximum would be from Haryana and UP and few from Delhi in terms of their origin, whereever they respond from. The JATS from Rasjathan strongly favour reservation for the reasons of their own, but strange fact is that it is not a kind of identity politics which would exclude some other castes or point out at particular sections of society.
The reservation for the JATS has been best way to eliminate the reservation as the law of majority prevails. The maximum competition is among the Jat kids and even the merit of OBC is few nothces higher than the general in RPSC exams. Therefore, reservation should be seen not as previlege but as prerogative to get included into the equals among others, those hitherto wished Jats to be outcasts.
ravichaudhary
New member
Nandal ji
This language is unacceptable.
People are having a discussion.Please allow them to do so.
The quality of posts is good.
As a Moderator , I do not wish to edit/delete your posts.
However you are forcing the issue. Please calm down.
Ravi Chaudhary
jitendershooda
New member
kyun pher te shuru kare hai, bhai
Anil, please help me to find out this "IF" to me ... WHERE IS THIS "IF"?
I didnt find in medical college Rohtak and its evident from my data and trend that in near future the percentage will decrease of finding this "IF".
Let me ask the same question but in a different way : There are two buses , one driven by driver A , one by driver B. Driver A is a reputed driver , driver B is a "seekhdad" like me
Anil, please help me to find out this "IF" to me ... WHERE IS THIS "IF"?
I didnt find in medical college Rohtak and its evident from my data and trend that in near future the percentage will decrease of finding this "IF".
jitendershooda
New member
Jeetu bhai, even I can claim that I have discussed this topic at length here at JL only and don't find anything new in the pro-arguments.
ha ha ha ... bhai 2-3 post pahele padho ye to aap kahe chuke ho, leave it anyway.
On the contrary, my view is that reservations would actually harm us.
I have provided data in my favour that Yadav's are not harmed at all due to this reservation instead their trend shows that more number of yadavs are competing after reservation and so is great increase in their success percentage. Where are we suspecting that harm to be?
Main reasons why the students from Yadav category
Are applying more in numbers and their success rate is increasing:
a) Because of less form cost. Even a mediocre student is going for it. Which is a good thing.
b) Because of more number of seats to compete. Due to this they are encouraged to put more efforts seeing some space for them. And that is true even.
So even if the current system stays, I don't want Jats to get it. I have given detailed arguments on this earlier. But in brief, I believe that future of India is not in govt. jobs, but in private enterprise.
Dont know if you have been through one of my posts on other thread where I have even put the link of a newspaper where Manmohan singh in Mumbai quoted boldly that there will be reservation in private too. Then what please guide us through?
I don't want the community to fight over the spoils of a small and rotting cake, when there are so many opportunities in private sector, business, sports, etc. I think this so called aandolan has anyways been on for 15 years or so. I know quite a few people who spent their youth being unemployed, waiting for the reservations to bail them out.
Sorry but Dont see any thing to reply here.
We are at a danger of becoming like communists always looking for a revolution that would never come. Isn't it much better to focus on steps that should have no opposition and are much more likely to lead to development- like quality education, vocational training, sports facilities, etc.
Here I feel nobody is stopping us for all this. No cross roads here. Focus on this as well. Perhaps this is a subset of what I have requested you anti-reservationalists to go for and share, isnt it?
Just a simple query are we giving more importance to this opposition? Doesnt find any reason why the cold blodded people havent opposed when this was done for yadav's?
Finally, reservations are also harmful because of reverse discrimnation in the system.
You don't see many people from reserved categories excelling in any field as the system discriminates against them and they also develop an inferiority complex.
What are you writing my dear? Have you any idea about Meenas in rajasthan? How state and even centre govt was not able to take a single step against their wish during gurjar andolan? Because they have excelled and are sitting at decision making posts. Kya hadh ho gae thi ki sirf us category mein doosri ghumantu jati joki gurjar hein ko sirf shamil nahi karne diya gaya aur ek bilkul supreme court ke adesh ke khilaf 68% seats reserve karni padi rajasthan govt ko. And we are in an illusion that they are in inferiority complex.
I think we are much better than fighting to become a class of govt. employees.
Hey my dear friend, please let me know where the common man will go for his daily routine works, medical, govt offices etc. We cant ignore just by saying class of govt. employees they are the decision makers. You might have noticed here on JL that on this thread even one of our IAS selected (from haryana and selected without quota) member have voted for reservation as he is living it practically.
Will try to answer Anjoo's questions too later on.
Please try to answer each and every question/answer.
Wo balakan ki dhalan ek ek parshan hal karte chalange. Theek sai
A
anilsinghd
Guest
jaisi bade bhia ki aagya
na karte fer tai shuru !you know my stand better than most!I am not in favour of reservation at all( not only against JAt reservation but against any kind ) and if at all it needs to be done , i would rather make sure that it reaches to those who really need it rather than getting in the name of "needy" and ultimately going to people who probably do not need it! ( In sync with Anjoo/Kapil on this).
Would not go anywhere else than myself , if at all reservation of jats will be there or imagine it was there , i would have easily got it , but you very well know that I do/did not need it. Very well can be applied on Kapil / Anjoo etc ( Sorry to have named you guys over here ).
I do not want to give a choice to people like myself!
Guess I am not doing anything wrong as I am against myself first ( if at all anyone is getting vibes that I am against Jats
).