prashantacmet
New member
Is LOVE fictional and lie or you want to say that one should repulse his/her emotions of love for parental and societal demands?
Getting married in same caste..
- Thread starter riyaa
- Start date
akshaymalik84
Active member
हा हा हा ...... दिल तो डांगर है जी ......
ravinderjeet
New member
akshay ye to ksootey hoye serious discussion karan laagrey sein ,er tu majaak banaawey, galat baat.
Well it depends, if you have your love as your life partner you can say it exist, if you are cheated or by some other mean you get separated its doesn't exist! Its your luck what you get!
Well parents did alot for there children, every parent want that there child should have a bright future, and BTW according to me, emotions of parents should be given more value! Well am against of inter caste marriages, but if I suppose to do inter caste marriage, i will try to convert love to arrange, and what i want at last, If my Parents Deny, then they should be having the another reason except the caste system.
In addition to it MR VP Singh you simply rock! hats of to your answers!
हा हा हा हा ..डांगर !
अक्षय भाई, डांगर भी झोटा / खागड़ सा !
मेरा मतलब है, झोटे खागड़ सा मनचला, रोज नई २ खूद खान का जी करे जा से !
आज समर के गेहूं में छिडदम तार दिया, काल अक्षय की बिर्सम में फस्तूर ठागया !
पर गुलजार साहेब ने ये भी कहा है, "दिल तो बच्चा है जी"!
बच्चे जैसा हठ, बच्चे जैसा भोलापन ! और जो दीमाग की ना सुने तो बच्चे जैसा निश्छल !
पता नहीं में सही हूँ या गलत, पर मेरा फिर भी यही माननाहै, "दिल की सुनो, दिल की मानो"
दीमाग, पचड़े में डाले ही डाले !
@ समर भाई जाति, जाती जातीये जागी!
अक्षय भाई, डांगर भी झोटा / खागड़ सा !
मेरा मतलब है, झोटे खागड़ सा मनचला, रोज नई २ खूद खान का जी करे जा से !
आज समर के गेहूं में छिडदम तार दिया, काल अक्षय की बिर्सम में फस्तूर ठागया !
पर गुलजार साहेब ने ये भी कहा है, "दिल तो बच्चा है जी"!
बच्चे जैसा हठ, बच्चे जैसा भोलापन ! और जो दीमाग की ना सुने तो बच्चे जैसा निश्छल !
पता नहीं में सही हूँ या गलत, पर मेरा फिर भी यही माननाहै, "दिल की सुनो, दिल की मानो"
दीमाग, पचड़े में डाले ही डाले !
@ समर भाई जाति, जाती जातीये जागी!
anuragsunda
Member
Most of the time people have misunderstanding between LOVE and AFFECTION. It might be possible that you may attracted by anyone like Aamir khan, Gautam Gambhir, Vijay malya .....or your friend or neighbor, classmate etc. but that attraction will pursue for whole life you may not know. LOVE means itself come close to the community, not to avoid community which human being learn to fight and face the real life problems with ease.
I think "Parents" are like a "Sun" and children are "moon" and its better for "moon" to get light from SUN to sustain its brightness life long, And for me-"light is LOVE"
Anurag
I personally know a jat girl married to a chamar who is a Phd from MIT.
BTW, dhed jaati/janam se bante hai yaa karm se?
BTW, dhed jaati/janam se bante hai yaa karm se?
रिया जी आपने सही कहा!
माता पिता से अहम् , इस दुनिया में कुछ भी नहीं !
दिल, माता पिता का भी टूटता है !
माता पिता भी सपने देखते हैं बच्चों के लिए ! उनकी दुनिया ही बच्चों के इर्दगिर्द घुमती है !
लेकिन, अगर माता पिता इसे अहम् का प्रशन न बनायें, तब दिल क्यों टूटेगा ?
मुश्किल यही होती है की हम उन्हें बच्चा ही समझाते रहते हैं, जिम्मेदार नहीं समझते !
इन सबके बावजूद यही कहूँगा की माता पिता, सामाजिक दबाव या झूठी शान के लिए नहीं, बल्कि बच्चों का हित देखें और फैसला करें !
और ये बात में तब कह रह हूँ जब में इस दोराह से बस कुछ ही दूर खड़ा हूँ !
हालांकि समाज की भी हमारे जीवन में अहम् भूमिका है, लेकिन बना तो हर एक के अधिकारों की सुरक्षा के लिए है !
अगर कोई व्यक्ति किसी दुसरे के अधिकारों का अतिकर्मण नहीं करता, तब तक समाज का भी दायित्व बनता है की अपनी सीमाओं का अतिकर्मण न करे !
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देशवाल साहब ने बात का निचोड़ कर दिया और सारांश में बहुत गहरी बात कह गए i बहुत बढ़िया i
samarkadian
Active member
Thanks for bringing it up. Else discussion would ve been one quarter.
Even I am known to a Jat boy who is married to a Chamar girl, who is an IAS(IRS-Batch 07).
At Harvard/MIT only high IQ people get admission. IQ is the basic criteria. Societal dominance can't be alone achieved with higher IQ though a life full of luxary could be.
Now my question back to your question is :- Does IQ trump everything? Does IQ trump genetic superiority gained through centuries of evolution?
And it was hard for me to believe and accept but in realistic day to day world Jaati is by birth. Genetics is next to the God. Nature hardly cares for an IIT/MIT/Harvardian or a school drop out when it comes to survival endurance and longeivity. Life is a practical joke thrown at humanity by God.
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So it all comes down to physical appearance, mannerism and background, which is about what caste the boy or girl belongs to.
In my opinion, the objection from the parents and family would be less if:
a) The person is of attractive physical personality.
b) Is from the caste, which is just next in hierarchical order, upper or lower.
c) Cast not known or incorrectly disclosed.
d) Out of social pressure, living away from Jat heartland or in a foreign country.
When, I was writing these lines, I casually asked my wife, would it be okay with her, if one of our child, decide to marry a person from lower caste.
Without waiting from a second, she said, not at all.
When I asked her again, why?
A typical Jatni replied, “ ..............Pagal ho rehya se”
Then, I asked her the reason, she staggered for few seconds and came the logical reply,” उनमे हीन भावना रहेगी, जिससे बहार वे कभी नहीं निकल सकते !”
I agreed to her viewpoint to some extent.
I have friend from Chamar jati, a senior physician and married to a jat lady.
I have always observed some kind of inferiority complex in his behavior, which always touches my heart.
Cheers!
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So you are in favour of perpetual dominance of one particular caste over others. Mayavati has proved this theory wrong in UP by her social engineering. People like Tikait had to cut a sorry figure some time back when she sent police sleuths to arrest him consequent upon his casting some castiest slur on her. There is no doubt she is calling shots there without any sense of inferiority and with full social dominance. Many upper caste people making a bee line every morning to pay their obeisance to her 'Mayavi' power. At one point of time, even Ajit had supported her Prime Ministerial candidature when the government was about to fall on nuclear issue. How would we feel if other castes, especially the so called upper castes viz. Rajputs, Brahmins or Vaishyas try to justify their dominance over Jats treating themselves as divinely superior. The caste system is not divinely ordained. It is all man-made. It is a different thing that when it comes to matrimonial affairs, the first preference is normally given to someone within the same caste due to certain reasons and one of the reasons being a superiority/inferiority complex as explained by Shri SP Deshwal, and also the societal pressure. Man is a social animal and while living in a society it is difficult to militate against the dictates of the vigilantes of society. But in their heart of hearts, the majority of modern educated youth want to dump this outdated system of 'marriages within caste only'. Many well to do families, especially living in cities and abroad have already started breaking this tradition. Even leaders like Chaudhary Charan Singh married off his daughters to someone belonging to the so-called backward class, considered lower than Jats. It did not lowered his esteem in the eyes of his Jat fellows and he continued to enjoy their political support.
Even though marriage is purely a private affair and that the concerned parties are the best judge in such matters, parents and the close relatives have a say in such matters and it is always advisable for boys and girls to take them into confidence before taking such an important decision as marriage. Sometimes, love turns out to be just an infatuation and in the absence of familial consent the girl or boy will definitely be in the soup. One must always try to take parents and elders into confidence in marital matters to be on safe side as they would never think bad of their children.
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Karm is definitely above all. Phd from MIT/Harvard is neither a certificate of what 'karams' a person will do nor of an intelligent person (IQ is subjective). A look into the present will tell you the 'Karams' of Harvard/MIT pass outs. For instance, look at "Abhishek Singhvi" a Harvard passout, people know him more as a person who helped Dow escape its liabilities in Bhopal disaster then anything else. I won't call such a person 'an intelligent person".
No. Not at all.
It is the karam which is superior. However, 'good' karam is also subjective, and that's where the question of getting married within own cast falls to. The definition of 'good' karams varies from community to community, for some one it is the devotion towards Gods and/or Deities, for someone it would be earning good money, for someone it could be respect and care of elders. Within a community the likelihoods of matching the definition of 'good' between two people is higher and thus their higher chances of harmony. This is what, I think, Samar also meant by the below lines.
That is why, when people search for a suitable match for marriage, they discuss the 'karams' of parents and their for-fathers, because that's were they can get some hint of what lies in future.
जाखर जी
सीमाएं परिलक्षित हैं !
प्राकृतिक न्याय की प्रवृति पर आधारित, सामाजिक वयवस्था का जैसे २ क्रमिक विकाश हुआ, वयक्तिक और सामूहिक अधिकारों की सीमाएं भी निश्चित होती चली गई !
अतः , अधिकार सीमाएं परिलक्षित हैं! सीमाओं का अतिक्रमण तो तब ही होगा जब सीमाएं होंगी !
समस्या, सीमा निर्धारण की नहीं है, बल्कि पालन की है !
इसके लिए अतिकर्मी व् अतिकर्मित , दोनों बराबर के दोषी हैं !
अतिकर्मी दोषी है, यह स्पष्ट है,परन्तु अतिकर्मित भी दोषी है, क्योंकि वह ऐसा होने देता है !
उसे अपने अधिकारों की ताक़त को जानना होगा, तब ही वह अदृशय शक्ति अतिकर्मी के खिलाफ लड़ने की हिमत देगी !
आपने वो गजल सुनी होगी, " जो न जाने हक की ताक़त, रब न देवे उसको हिम्मत "
खुश रहो !
bilkul sahi hain ....
Deswal Ji,
Aapka matlab hai seemayen to hain parantu log un seemayon se wakif nahi hain? agar aisa hai to kon decide karega ki seemaon ka palan ho raha hai ya nahi? kya koi aisi sanstha/vyakti hai jo in seemaon ka palan sunishchit kare? agar hai to kya wo samaj hai? agar samaj hai to samaj ko kya karna chahiye jab koi seemaon ka ullanghan kare?
Kripaya meri agyaanta aur mere seedhe prashnon ke liye mujhe kshama karen.
Aapka matlab hai seemayen to hain parantu log un seemayon se wakif nahi hain? agar aisa hai to kon decide karega ki seemaon ka palan ho raha hai ya nahi? kya koi aisi sanstha/vyakti hai jo in seemaon ka palan sunishchit kare? agar hai to kya wo samaj hai? agar samaj hai to samaj ko kya karna chahiye jab koi seemaon ka ullanghan kare?
Kripaya meri agyaanta aur mere seedhe prashnon ke liye mujhe kshama karen.
It is easy to accept the example I gave in my post because nobody can deny the high IQ of a chamar guy on an even playing field!!
It was a simple example how caste/ race/ religion can become immaterial when two people decide to get married.
If that chamar guy had believed that he was "inferior" or "backward to others in the society because he was born a "chamar" because of the genes/ nature, then would he be at MIT today?
Even your signature reads-"As I shall imagine, so shall I become", and not "As I shall be born, so shall I become"?
Besides the caste, there is lot more to a person that makes him/ her better than others.
And, "compatibility" does seem like a good reason for marriage. That compatibility can be of caste, values, IQ, wealth, emotional makeup, appearance, profession, etc , etc,or all of these depending on what a person gives importance to.
It was a simple example how caste/ race/ religion can become immaterial when two people decide to get married.
If that chamar guy had believed that he was "inferior" or "backward to others in the society because he was born a "chamar" because of the genes/ nature, then would he be at MIT today?
Even your signature reads-"As I shall imagine, so shall I become", and not "As I shall be born, so shall I become"?
Besides the caste, there is lot more to a person that makes him/ her better than others.
And, "compatibility" does seem like a good reason for marriage. That compatibility can be of caste, values, IQ, wealth, emotional makeup, appearance, profession, etc , etc,or all of these depending on what a person gives importance to.
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sunillathwal
New member
Samar, there are flaws in your logic. It seems to me that you are convinced about the segregation of different social groups (caste, ethnicity etc.) according to "superiority-hierarchy" [based on a cocktail of IQ and/or endurance and/or longevity].
I do agree with the fact that nature does not made everybody equal but then within a particular group itself people are unequal. For instance: Taking the above example of IQ, consider two groups A and B; If these groups are sufficiently large then IQ value curve will show a significant variation in both groups. Mother Nature dictates the terms here and hence a dumbbell shaped curve.
So for a person from group A, it is better to choose somebody from the top 10% group B rather than choosing someone from bottom 90% of group B! (speaking academically).
Now arises The Question: If the "average-A" is superior than the "average-B"? Answer is not that simple. Problem lies with the definition of "superiority". Does being physically strong is enough for superiority? OR IQ also matters OR street-smartness and smugness
are also important for survival? Then there is problem of external factors (money, family, opportunities, geography, food habits, etc.) which can soooo easily undermine the genetics.
You said, genetics is next to God, I would say external factors are equal to God.. may be more than God.
Suppose, person X has a fine set of genes (strong IQ, immunity from diseases, etc.); person y is with 'average' genes but born in a decent (in richness term) family. Person X works in mine/farm/factory with poor health regulations and person y is a software engineer and work out regularly. ----> Chances are person y will live longer (and happier) than person X. There goes the whole concept of genetic-superiority. [btw there is a nice movie Gattaca discussing the question of genetic-superiority & will power]
Okay, I have few questions:
1. Talking about "gifts of knowledge", nobody can beat "Jews". Jewish Nobel Laureates are far far more in number than any other ethnicity/religious group. Goes without saying Nobel Laureates means the he/she is the pioneer of his/her field and he/she has contributed a lot for the betterment of humanity.
Does it mean Jews are "superior" than others? Where does Indians or Jats lie in this hierarchy?
Even in India, if you look at the IITs or NITs or university professors. Bengalis dominates everywhere. Be it TIFR, BARC, CSIR labs, IISc, any IIT, DU dept or colleges, south, north everywhere. Does it mean that we (Jats and other north Indians castes) are dumber than Bengalis ?
2. Physically: Indians are "tiny" as compared to most Europeans. I am sure Jats are not "giant" either when compared to any west or northern Europeans. A look at the average heights will confirm that. one can even see girls above 180 cms in almost all street.
Does this make us any 'inferior'? We are not excelling at sports either (like, Aussies). Are we inferior or Does it has something do with Govt and sports ministry?
3. Life-expectancy: a very simple measure of conventional longevity. Again we (Indians and I am sure Jats too) are 'poorer' than westerners in this aspect. Are we 'inferior' ? or is it because of some "external factors"?
-----
As pointed out by Anjoo, compatibility is a good enough reason for marrying someone- inter-caste or intra-caste.
If we strictly go by the superiority-index-manuals (if such things exist), most Jatnis will end up marrying Jews or Europeans or Americans or Aussies. And "Genetics" would suggest that it is better to allow polygamy and terminate almost all Indians (among others) as this would make world less prone to diabetics & cardiovascular diseases.
P.S. Evolution is probably the most misquoted concept.