Army chief Gen. VK Singh DOB dispute

karan said:
Ravinderjeet is doing a good job in responding. Whatever you do please don't twist things out of context. Nobody is talking or inferring about stealing "Kursi or Gaddi" it is about a principled agreement. Gov't and this fu'ked up nation wants to hold their military at highest possible ethical standard, asking them to lay down their lives for millions of scum bags who don't even deserve to live or breath extra second of their miserable life and the same people and their elected representatives are trying to humiliate a COAS, don't they know the severity of this situation. What charan singh did or devi lal did has nothing to do with the current situation. We are talking about a disciplined honorable man than comparing him to politicians. Your argument lost validity the moment you brought caste, creed, and some other hue to this discussion
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I think, there can be no better reply to your post than the one given by Kapil and I fully endorse his opinion. May I now request you not to give a new twist to this matter by making it a fight between the "honour of military and the scum bags/bugs - the ordinary mortals of this fu'ked nation" (in your civilized parlance). And by the way it were you who took an initiative to give this matter a caste twist. Please go through your post pasted below:

Witten by Karan......Dude You are living in a fools paradise. You have no idea about the selection process of General officers. Do you know the strength of Punjabi Lobby in Army. Punjabi is the de facto lingua franca? Do you have any idea how much Sikhs care for other sikh officer? You are quick to jump to many conclusions without having any deep knowledge of process. I totally agree with Fateh on his observation about Bikram Singh as another incompetent officer who will become COAS. Do you know what happened in Congo Peace Mission under his command, how many of his officers have been accused of sexual crimes? How many fake encounters did he manage to get himself gallantry medal? You should dig deep and do your own research------wikipedia is not research its hearsay
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Accusations of favoritism in defence department and thereby whipping up divisive tendencies in army by raising a bogey of religion and caste is very dangerous. Your esteemed friend (as quoted by you) is a past master in raising the bogey of caste. This site is full of such instances where, every third post is aghast with casteism. You seem to be conspicuously maintaining silence about that.


Going by your endorsement of your esteemed friend's suggestion about mutiny by Gen. Singh, you also seem to be in favour of a mutiny.
 
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It is regrettable that a small matter of bureaucratic technicality is being given a dimension whereby it could be projected as an institutional confrontation between the State and the Army, which is not a case, at all. Gen. Singh is on record saying that it is his individual matter.
 
Yesterday evening I was listening to a discussion on the subject at probably news hour, I was pained to see how the civilian participents and the enchor were airing totally biased views, I think govt is blindly all out to push its decision through and show to the public that justice, principles, trueth etc are nothing but govt wish is more important and suprime, they were trying their best to avoide the real issue and blaming thr Gen for lowering the immage of the post, where as no body mentioned any thing about the responsibility of the govt and the justice, I donot say that Gen is totally free from responsibility but I think Govt is more responsible, Now some people say that gen accepted his DOB OF 1950, i ASK THEM IS IT BANIA KI SHOP WHERE THEY DECIDED ABOUT THE dob them selves, niether the govt nor the individual here general can take such decision and if they have taken it is totally illegal, for existance of two DOBs in the record both parties and the govt more responsible. What ever has happened is not good but atlist now the court, govt and vk singh must act properly, There is record available in police station and with CMO about BIRTH, WHY CANNOT GOVT OR GENERAL GET THE SAME AND PUT IT TO THE COURT or take final decision.
 
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Let's assume that it is blown out of proportion then who is responsible?
The govt. is hell bent to oust Gen Singh on May 31, 2012. Don't you think it is unfair to dispose the army chief like that?
If the govt. is ready to accept that DOB of Gen Singh is May 10, 1951 (as claimed by law miniter Mr. Khurshid) then why this kolaveri D? Let Gen Singh continue his tenure?
Don't you feel that it's an ego clash between the govt. and the institution of army and govt. being more responsible?


vpsingh said:
It is regrettable that a small matter of bureaucratic technicality is being given a dimension whereby it could be projected as an institutional confrontation between the State and the Army, which is not a case, at all. Gen. Singh is on record saying that it is his individual matter.
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jakhar77 said:
Let's assume that it is blown out of proportion then who is responsible?
The govt. is hell bent to oust Gen Singh on May 31, 2012. Don't you think it is unfair to dispose the army chief like that?
If the govt. is ready to accept that DOB of Gen Singh is May 10, 1951 (as claimed by law miniter Mr. Khurshid) then why this kolaveri D? Let Gen Singh continue his tenure?
Don't you feel that it's an ego clash between the govt. and the institution of army and govt. being more responsible?
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No Sita Ram Bhai, this is purely a dispute between an officer and the department. Gen. Singh has every right to go to court as a citizen of India but, certainly he would not be setting a good precedent. In my opinion (which is usually wrong) Gen. Singh should have gracefully retired on stipulated date, if he himself has accepted the DOB: as 1950 for the benefit of promotion, once. Now please don't say it was under pressure. A journalist (Sagarika Ghoshe of CNN-IBN) has rightly written on twitter :

"Gen.Singh,sir, nasty things happen when Generals collide with elected govts. You are already Chief, is that not honour enough?"
 
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If the issue is so small then why the defense minister, prime minister, law minister are having meetings every hour to chalk out the stretagy? They should simply say, let the supreme court decide the matter. Why so much effort is being made to send Gen Singh out of office on May 31, 2012? If the COAS is chosen on merit then whoever is available when Gen Singh retires will be COAS. It is said that if Gen Singh retires on May 31, 2012 then Lt Gen/Gen Bikram Singh will be COAS but if Gen Singh retires in 2013 then it will change.

Why I or any lay person should not think that the govt. is just want Gen Singh to go out so Lt Gen/Gen Bikram Singh can become COAS?
Why I or lay person should not think that govt. is trying protect one of retd COAS in whose time, several corruption cases and scams happened and probe was opened by COAS Gen Singh?

Who is responsible for this whole kolaveri dee?
Who should have tried to solve the issue well in time?
Why this issue was leaked in to media?
It is certainly not Gen Singh then who created this whole issue?

vpsingh said:
No Sita Ram Bhai, this is purely a dispute between an officer and the department. Gen. Singh has every right to go to court as a citizen of India but, certainly he would not be setting a good precedent. In my opinion (which is usually wrong) Gen. Singh should have gracefully retired. A journalist has rightly written on twitter :

"Gen.Singh,sir, nasty things happen when Generals collide with elected govts. You are already Chief, is that not honour enough?"
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jakhar77 said:
If
Why I or any lay person should not think that the govt. is just want Gen Singh to go out so Lt Gen/Gen Bikram Singh can become COAS?
Why I or lay person should not think that govt. is trying protect one of retd COAS in whose time, several corruption cases and scams happened and probe was opened by COAS Gen Singh?

?
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Is it so? I thought our Army is absolutely corruption free. Unbelievable, corruption in army!!
 
I would add "reportedly" before my text quoted and underlined by you to avoid discussing corruption in army in place of the topic of the thread.

I humbly request you to see the remaining part of my post, rather than making it army corruption thread. I am sure you read neaspapers where all these news were published when Adarsh, Sukna Lake and many other scams were unearthed.

vpsingh said:
Is it so? I thought our Army is absolutely corruption free. Unbelievable, corruption in army!!
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भावी थल सेना अध्यक्ष जनरल विक्रम सिंह पर लगे भीषण आरोपों की कांग्रेस सरकार उपेक्षा क्यों कर

रही है? जनरल विक्रम सिंह की पुत्रवधू पाकिस्तानी नागरिक है, ऐसे में क्या उन्हें देश के इस संवेदनशील

पद पर आसीन करना उचित होगा ???????????????????
 
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vpsingh said:
No Sita Ram Bhai, this is purely a dispute between an officer and the department. Gen. Singh has every right to go to court as a citizen of India but, certainly he would not be setting a good precedent. In my opinion (which is usually wrong) Gen. Singh should have gracefully retired on stipulated date, if he himself has accepted the DOB: as 1950 for the benefit of promotion, once. Now please don't say it was under pressure. A journalist (Sagarika Ghoshe of CNN-IBN) has rightly written on twitter :

"Gen.Singh,sir, nasty things happen when Generals collide with elected govts. You are already Chief, is that not honour enough?"
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Sagarika Ghosh is dumb. Based on whatever little I could bear to read from her (including this), her comments neither have any journalistic honesty nor any analytical rigour.

India is not Pakistan. Sensationalists in media may want to show this as a big collission between the army and the government, but there is no evidence to suggest so. It is a sign of healthy democracy that an army general goes to court to sort out an issue like this like any other government officer would have.

I don't see why the general needs to retire "graciously". He could be very passionate about his job, he could have unfinished goals. Why should he be subject to outsiders' sense of grace. He could also feel that he is being unfairly targeted by a corrupt regime. In that case, it makes perfect sense for him to take on the government as per the law of the land. In the end, it is his personal decision. All we should care about is that justice is done.

My personal opinion on the case is that he can't be that stupid to use one DoB for all promotions and then insist on using another just for increasing tenure. And he can't be that clever to come up with a scheme to become the COAS for a long tenure before giving his NDA exam. These type of absurd insinuations are most probably being planted in the media by the government's dirty tricks department. He must have a case on the basis of which he is fighting, whether the sum total of evidence is in his favor or against can only be judged in a court of law.
 
[FONT=Bhaskar_WEB_Intro_Test]एक सेना प्रमुख के नाते यह मामला मेरे आत्मसम्मान व सच्चाई से जुड़ा हुआ है -जनरल वी के सिंह, आर्मी चीफ[/FONT]
 
Further to my above post,
1) A certificatefrom MH Pune, a part two order from the unit of his father, a letter from CDA (O) PUNE ETC ALL SHOW HIS dob 1951 against once an entry in the application to UPSC WHICH SHOWS 1950,
2) aUTHORITY TO MAINTAIN RECORD IS agS BRANCH WHICH HAS MAINTAINED THROUGH OUT 1951,
3) GOVT HAS ACHIEVED:-
A) Decision on CDS pushed under carpat.
b) Go slow on modernisation of Army
c) All promotion boards for offrs of the rank of brigadiers and above are unusually delayed to accomodate favourites
d) Go slow on OROP
E) Payment to various firms delayed but huse amount to NGOs like neharu foundation, indira trust, sonia museum, rajive bank, rahul cooperatives, vadra brothers, priyanka parlours etc allocated and transfered
f) Go slow on enpenallanment of hospitals for ECHS
G) No cars for serving defence personnel unless approved by QMG, WHERE IS THE FACILITY IS EXISTING EVEN FOR POLICE PEOPLE
H) All civilian directors (equallant to colonel)in MOD ARE AUTHORISED INDIVIDUALLY STAFF CAR DRIVEN BY DEFENCE PERSON WHERE AS OFFICER OF THE RANK OF MAJOR GENERAL POSTED IN SERVICE hqS HAS TO SHARE THE TRANSPORT.
I) All civilian directors in MOD are authorised treatment in R&R MILITRY HOSPITAL, where as ex servicemen are turn away
j) All civilian directors in MOD are authorised canteen facilities including liquor, without any limit where as for serving/ex defence personnel laid down a strict limit for purchases


 JAGO FAUJIS JAGO, YOU HAVE TO STAND FOR JUSTICE, YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THE NATION IS TOTALLY IGNORED
 
navdeepkhatkar said:
jahan tak hamari knowledge h ... Armed forces me to had se jayda corruption h :(:(
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Friend, still comperatively very very less, since people donot expect corruption in defence and any even small incident which comes to light is blown out of perportion and serious attention of people is drawn and it get registered in the mind, I have seen both, beside defence service, I was Registerar Central Administrative Tribunal and now last about 12 years I managing my pvt company, dealing with civil administration as well as pvt organisations, I can assure you the defence services are still much batter in comperision,
 
Fateh said:

Friend, still comperatively very very less, since people donot expect corruption in defence and any even small incident which comes to light is blown out of perportion and serious attention of people is drawn and it get registered in the mind, I have seen both, beside defence service, I was Registerar Central Administrative Tribunal and now last about 12 years I managing my pvt company, dealing with civil administration as well as pvt organisations, I can assure you the defence services are still much batter in comperision,
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good to learn these new facts ..
 
vpsingh said:
Kapil, I agree with you except for the above. (smiley button is not working)
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Let me try to convince you a bit more....:)

This is what she said, "Gen.Singh,sir, nasty things happen when Generals collide with elected govts. You are already Chief, is that not honour enough?"

What collision is she talking about? No one has taken out guns or even hinted remotely to it. What nasty things can happen? The nastiest thing so far is this comment on twitter that she has subjected us to. She is just sensationalising the issue by making disingenous hints to the conditions in the neigbouring country.

And "is that not honour enough" is an outright rubbish argument. Has she ever asked:

1. An industrialist: " Why do you want more profit? You are already worth XYZ billions, is that not rich enough?"

2. A politician: "Why do you want a higher post? You are already on XYZ position. Is that not high enough"

3. Sachin Tendulkar: "Why do you want another century? You already have so many, is that not enough"

4. Herself: "Why do you want to be the editor? You already are an accomplished journalist, is the torture that readers/viewers have gone through not enough?"

I will grant her some honesty in thought process, if she asks any of the above questions, especially 4th one.
 
Can't agree more and the same time laughing out loud. Thanks Kapil for the laugh. :)

kapdal said:
Let me try to convince you a bit more....:)

This is what she said, "Gen.Singh,sir, nasty things happen when Generals collide with elected govts. You are already Chief, is that not honour enough?"

What collision is she talking about? No one has taken out guns or even hinted remotely to it. What nasty things can happen? The nastiest thing so far is this comment on twitter that she has subjected us to. She is just sensationalising the issue by making disingenous hints to the conditions in the neigbouring country.

And "is that not honour enough" is an outright rubbish argument. Has she ever asked:

1. An industrialist: " Why do you want more profit? You are already worth XYZ billions, is that not rich enough?"

2. A politician: "Why do you want a higher post? You are already on XYZ position. Is that not high enough"

3. Sachin Tendulkar: "Why do you want another century? You already have so many, is that not enough"

4. Herself: "Why do you want to be the editor? You already are an accomplished journalist, is the torture that readers/viewers have gone through not enough?"

I will grant her some honesty in thought process, if she asks any of the above questions, especially 4th one.
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kapdal said:
Let me try to convince you a bit more....:)

This is what she said, "Gen.Singh,sir, nasty things happen when Generals collide with elected govts. You are already Chief, is that not honour enough?"

What collision is she talking about? No one has taken out guns or even hinted remotely to it. What nasty things can happen? The nastiest thing so far is this comment on twitter that she has subjected us to. She is just sensationalising the issue by making disingenous hints to the conditions in the neigbouring country.

And "is that not honour enough" is an outright rubbish argument. Has she ever asked:

1. An industrialist: " Why do you want more profit? You are already worth XYZ billions, is that not rich enough?"

2. A politician: "Why do you want a higher post? You are already on XYZ position. Is that not high enough"

3. Sachin Tendulkar: "Why do you want another century? You already have so many, is that not enough"

4. Herself: "Why do you want to be the editor? You already are an accomplished journalist, is the torture that readers/viewers have gone through not enough?"

I will grant her some honesty in thought process, if she asks any of the above questions, especially 4th one.
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hahahaha thanks for the humor just before leaving the office.. :):) grt explanation
 
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